I'm trying to figure out the major differences between a uniformed Military Engineer (Air Force in particular) and a Civilian Engineer working for the military.  Not so much benefits and requirements and all that, but differences in job function.  I ask because I am highly interested in becoming a Flight Test Engineer and I see that Edwards AFB is big on both civilian and military engineers. I graduate a year from now, so this is no idle speculation.

One of my friends is a civilian engineer at Hill AFB who highly recommends civilian engineering, my uncle is a retired Navy Captain who highly recommends military, and my cousin is a Navy Nuke who... I haven't spoken to now that I think about it.  I'm just trying to get a more rounded view of the matter.

   

Both have their attractions.

Can't speak for the US.

In the UK, civilians tend to get opportunities to play across a much wider range of disciplines than their counterparts in uniform do - especially in terms of the type of project/equipment they engage with.

At the other extreme, they also tend to have more opportunities to stay in the one place and become deep specialists.

People in uniform get their variety more from the circumstances under which they sometimes get to do their engineering.

A.

My impression is that military engineers are primarily contract technical POCs, while civilian engineers are usually involved with direct work.   

TTFN

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Seems most of the Airforce Engineers I knew spent most of their time managing technicians or budgets or projects or variations there on.

While there are bound to be exceptions, these days if you want to do actual engineering I'd suggest going civil.

Plus in the military, just because you joined so you could work at Edwards doesn't mean you'll actually get to - you'll probably get put where it suits them.

Right, I used Edwards as an example simply because I know there are a lot of civilian engineers there and I don't really know much about other bases.

I have often heard that military engineers are more military than engineer, I feel okay with that - the more engineering work I do (two internships, structures and petroleum) the more I feel like a highly specialized businessman... Maybe it's the suit. I should get a lab coat ;)

Thanks all for your input

Unless you can enter as an officer, whatever they promise you on signup is merely a suggestion; you'll get placed into whatever area they need bodies.

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You should join us ex-military as a minority of the nation and do your service...then decide later.

I am a civilian working for the Air Force (structural engineer), and I love it. I spent 10 years in private industry and I was able to make the transition to civil service. Active duty engineers rotate out every 3 years, so if you have a really short attention span, that's a good way to go. Also, you could be deployed to a combat area at any time, but you do get to see a lot of the world. As a civilian, I can stay in one place as long as I want and it's pretty easy to transfer to another base, if there is a job opening... but it's my choice. The work is interesting and varied and I can decide on a project per project basis if I want to do the design work myself or act as a project manager and hire an outside firm. It's also good to get into civil service young because there is a lot of chance for advancement and they encourage professional growth. There are programs where the government will send you full time to get a master's degree while paying you the same salary. I highly recommend civil service, but they are very challenging jobs to get if you don't have veteran status. Good luck.

Thanks a lot Wolf, that's exactly the information I was looking for.  My main worry is as you said, they're very challenging jobs to get, especially since my grades aren't as good as the could (should) be.

It's very reassuring to know that whichever path I find myself upon I'll be getting a great experience.

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This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.  

stkyle-  There is a really good way as a young engineer to get into an Air Force career.  It's called the Palace Aquire program, and you basically do 2-3 years of "internship", but you get paid the whole time.  They just send you to a bunch of training and at the end of the program you get a permanent civil service job. I know a couple people who went that route.  Here's a link to the website: http://www.afciviliancareers.com/careers/hiringopportunities/students/palace/

 

Wolf brings up a good point on the vet status, having an existing clearance seems to help too.

stkyle - I'm a retired USAF Lieutenant Colonel, Electrical Engineer. As a military engineer (Officer Grades) your primary responsibility would be to prepare for leadership positions. I was in the Civil Engineering career field (equivalent of Facilities Engineering), and the last time I did "real" engineering technical work was as a First Lieutenant. In some fields you would transition very rapidly from technical to non-technical, project/program management work. The Air Force did send me to Grad School, followed by a very rewarding assignment teaching continuing education at the Air Force Institute of Technology but other than that you will be expected to be a leader, an officer first and foremost. I have no regrets whatsoever about the 20 years I served. In the end, it depends what YOU really want to do, if it's technical engineering work, go the civilian route.

I worked for four years as an officer in the Army Corps of Engineers, and never did a lick of engineering.  I was in both a combat (3 years) and construction (9 months) battalions.  I was a graduate Civil engineer, wanted a 1331 MOS (construction) but got a 1328 (combat).  Spent most of the time as a platoon leader and some as a staff officer.  The army, or whatever branch of service, is going to put you where it serves THEIR needs best, not yours.  

Point being here, only for a very select few in the actove service will you ever get the chance to actually do engineerng.  Most of it has already been figured out using charts and tables from some TM.  

If you actually want to do engineering, real engineering, the civilian road would give you a much better chance.  No guarantees, just a better chance.  Go the GS rating approach.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering