Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
(OP)
The coalition decided that all nuclear plants shall be closed latest 2021. Government shall take final decision.
This will cause some really big changes in many circles.
This will cause some really big changes in many circles.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.





RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
_____________________________________
"It's better to die standing than live your whole life on the knees" by Peter Mayle in his book A Good Year
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
(Unrealistic solar power is always an option for enviro's, but that doesn't produce power either.)
This policy is political "propaganda" only - it will fail and be replaced by the next government unless some other technology is invented and tested and produced and built in the next 8 years. But miracles happen. 8<)
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
PV panels still produce power even in bad weather, just not as much.
Hydrae
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
I just maintain that those solar panels will never be economically viable in Germany's environment and in Germany's latitude, compared to any conventional power source. This is a purely political scheme driven by political goals and social ideal for social and political power and money.
Not power production. Not economics. Not for the good of the public.
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
1. Solar powers do produce power.
2. Couldn't agree more.
3. Take a trip to Beijing, see and feel the smog. Without considerations beyond economics the west would still be that way.
Moral: sometimes a bit of environmentalism is "for the good of the public."
Comprehension is not understanding. Understanding is not wisdom. And it is wisdom that gives us the ability to apply what we know, to our real world situations
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
In the meantime, they'll buy electricity from France, which gets its electricity from nuclear plants ( provided the drought subsides).
Politics.
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
China is caused (mostly) by the little coal fired stove/heaters used throughout the country (coal compacted into 9" dia, X 12" long hollow cylinder).These things are smoldering away keeping a tea kettle hot anywhere there is space. Actually pretty clever except there are so many of them.
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
Which equals right about 0 gW after sunset. Then they will be getting their power from some other source.
PV will never supply more than a small percentage of total power needs until someone invents or finds the "storage miracle".
If this were to actually happen, it would have the Russians and the French grinning like Chesire cats.
David Castor
www.cvoes.com
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
Comprehension is not understanding. Understanding is not wisdom. And it is wisdom that gives us the ability to apply what we know, to our real world situations
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
And even this approximation is only good for March-April and Sept-Oct (near the equinoxes). Summer months (that far north (well north of Montreal and Toronto), you can (almost) expand that 6 hour usable solar window by 1-1/2 hours. In winter, reduce that 6 hour window by 1-1/2, and you (might) get 3-1/2 power-generating hours day. Call it 4 hours of actual power generated to be generous. IF (big "IF" there) the skies are clear. No clouds. (Usually, that far north, they aren't.)
So, to get 1 MegaWatt of power per hour for 24 hours in winter, you need to buy and install and hookup 6 MegaWatts of "potential" solar power panels. And the pivoting and solar tracking tower systems for 6 MegaWatts. And the power cables and converters and invertors for those 6 MegaWatts. Remember, you have 1 MegaWatt being delivered during the day for 4 hours. You need 24 MegaWatts delivered through the whole day, but you only have 4 hours to get the power from the sun.
Now, to use that power when the system is not on-line (the remaining 20 hours of the day) you have to to store the power until it is needed. You are getting 5 MegaWatts per hour of power in 4 hours, and you cannot slow or postpone or wait to convert it. You must convert and store the energy immediately. So you need to build and connect and control 5 MegaWatts/hour of "convert electric power to something else somehow" ability. (With a conversion efficiency of 75 - 80%, you really need about 6 Meg's/hour of "conversionability". Somehow. With something you need to design and build.
Then you need to store this 20 Meg's of energy, filling it completely in 4 hours, and emptying that storage "something" over a 20 hour period; until it can begin getting refilled the next morning at 8:00.
Now you need a 1.25 MegaWatt/hour of "something" to that stored "something capability" back into usable energy (remember the 75 - 80% assumed conversion efficiency you lost going in? Well, welcome to the real world - You lose it again coming back out.)
Oh - By the way - you still need a backup 1 MegaWatt of electric power capability for the 1 day in three that it is NOT perfectly and sunny in the winter.
Or you can keep your (existing and already paid for) nuclear plant operating and get - gee whiz - 1200 MegaWatts of power 24 hours a day. Every day of the year.
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
"In winter, reduce that 6 hour window by 1-1/2, and you (might) get 4-1/2 power-generating hours day. Call it 4 hours of actual power generated to be conservative."
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
... for 30 or 40 or 50 years.
Then you need a few megawatts 24/7 to keep the used fuel cool,
... for how many years?
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
Anyone know the typical industrial efficiency of cracking water into H2 and O?
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
I also find it interesting that there appears to be a belief that nuclear and solar are mutually exclusive -- I don't know any requirement, law, physical contstraint or other factor that says that both can't be used -- along with hydro, wind, coal and natural gas. Even fuel oil, though there are much better uses for that.
For what it's worth, the "best" energy policy is to have a variety of sources for power generation such that you're not overly dependent upon one particular type of energy. That is, of course, limited to what is available -- preaching hydro in a place without rivers suitable for dams is not going to work. Preaching solar to a place that has 90 percent cloud cover over a year is not going to work. Preaching coal to a country without coal reserves is not going to work.
Patricia Lougheed
******
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
You need to keep the spent fuel cool for 10-20 years or:
The Chinese are building a 200 MWt nuclear reactor to run on used fuel from nuclear power stations to generate process heat for district heating and desalination. Essentially an SFP operated as a deep pool-type reactor; it will operate at atmospheric pressure, which will reduce the engineering requirements for safety.[3]
HAZOP at www.curryhydrocarbons.ca
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Germany to close down (all) nuclear plants.