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Neighborhood Ethics

Neighborhood Ethics

Neighborhood Ethics

(OP)
I am having some repairs done under warranty to my home.  This effort began about a year ago with getting a structural engineering buddy to look things over, write his professional opinion, and stamp his letters.  I then sent his stamped letters to the builder through registered mail.

I didn't have much success on some of the more costly items.  They readily took care of the easiest fix.  Bear in mind, this easy fix was really easy and I told my neighbors about this.  Did any of them act on it?  No!  Once that was out of the way, I again focused on the costly items.

I talked with other P.E.'s in other disciplines with expertise in these particular issues.  I thought about what they said then formulated my requests to the builder and copied all engineers I discussed the relevant problems with for witnesses and clarity, if needed.  No response came.

I tried to enlist the assistance of my neighbors.  They had the same issues.  They were interested but not enough to do anything about it.  They were content to let me do the work and they would piggyback off my work.  Some got confused and thought I was doing a class action lawsuit, which was far, far from the truth.  I never talked with a lawyer.  These are people who often ignore me.

My requests were hung up in the builder's legal department, which I anticipated.  The builder and I reached an agreement and work began.

The neighborhood was abuzz the first week with "get names," "get details," and "most importantly, get the lawyer's name."  My agreement required silence about what they are doing to correct the problems.  I have honored the contract and remained silent about the details of our agreement.  I have told them I cannot contractually say anything.  They seemed to understand.  They also know a lot of what has been done because you cannot miss it.  They took pix to document it.

One of them lodged a complaint last Friday about my yard, with the HOA, which has been a construction zone the last few weeks.  If I don't correct it within 10 days or explain what is going on, I will be fined by the HOA.  It isn't that bad either!  So this smells like retribution for my silence.

I was willing to help them by giving the names of the engineers I talked with so they could get the same information and form their own conclusions and hopefully reach satisfactory agreements.  Now I am unwilling to do that.  I will never know who lodged the complaint but they all talk and I know one will provide the information to the complainer.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.........

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

Just be careful, some HOAs in some states have complete dictatorial powers, to the extent of being able to seize your home.  I think it was in Texas where the HOA seized a home and sold it to reclaim an alleged $1000 unpaid dues.  Obviously, some crony of the HOA was able to buy the property for pennies on the dollar.

TTFN

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RE: Neighborhood Ethics

"...or explain what is going on.."

It seems a reasonable request.

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

Let me guess...you have a wood frame, stucco-clad house with water intrusion issues and structural damage....

Write a letter to your HOA explaining that there were issues with your house that had to be corrected, requiring construction, but the source of which and the repair details you cannot discuss by agreement.  No details, no disclosure.  Send a copy to a lawyer, noted on the letter.

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

(OP)
IRStuff, that seems unconstitutional regardless of the HOA.  Thanks for the information though.  I'll investigate to see if it's applicable here.  I think once they know what's going on it will be OK.

apsix, they bound me legally to remain silent, which I explained and they understood.  They should have guessed that would happen based on similar activities on the other side of the development.  They can't talk either.

Ron, no structural damage and no stucco, thank God.  I immediately called and emailed the HOA.  According to the notification either form was OK.  If she doesn't respond today, I will put everything in writing.  I won't involve a lawyer just to keep her stable.

With my neighbors, I am more ticked that one of them would "turn me in" than I am ticked with the HOA.  They do things I don't like but I don't complain about them to the HOA or other neighbors.  It's all part of human nature.

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

lacajun....it's funny how the neighbors tend to show their stripes at inopportune times.  This same thing happened to one of my clients about 6 months ago.  They levied a fine against them, that ultimately got waived, but it was a pain in the butt.

Glad you were able to get the contractor to fix the problems without litigation.  Not so lucky around here.  They tend to fight it vigorously....but then that's part of my business (construction/structural forensics), so I won't complain too much!

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

lacajun,

It seems the people that gravitate "most of the time" to positions such as HOA directors are those with time on their hands and a desire to control.  

There are some good folks that run for HOA office, but they are normally worn-down by the dough-heads that complain that trash pick-up is too early in the day, or too late in the day, the landscapers are not sweeping the clippings off the street, someone's car is too loud in the morning, the neighbours dog barks when I look over the fence, on and on....

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

(OP)
Ron, I don't believe my success was pure luck.  I kept at it and used my experiences as an engineer to get the information I needed.  That's part of the rub with my neighbors wanting to piggyback off my work.  The point is:  it was work and some technical savvy was needed to navigate troubled waters.  I probably have a good 120 hours invested in this effort over the past year+.  I've learned most of my neighbors have no idea how their home got built and who participated in it at various stages.  I've worked with a lot of contractors in my career so it was normal for me to look for them and call them.

I learned during my layoff that doctors command their price regardless of what's going on around them because it is their line of work and how they earn a living.  I broke my leg four hours before getting laid off then came down with the flu five days later.  For a month, I couldn't really get outdoors, which caused my Vit. D to drop below the min level.  For quite a few months, medical bills mounted.  I paid full price for everything.  Engineers don't insist on this as other professions do.

I paid my structural engineering buddy a total of $150 for two stamped letters about the issues in the house.  I didn't mind either.  It was far less than paying an attorney and I hoped it was the first step to resolution.  I explained all of this to my neighbors last year and told them who to call.

Last week one neighbor admitted to seeing them add requisite bracing in the floor joists last year.  He never acted on it and they've had worse problems than me with that issue.  Did he call?  No.  I could freely talk about that and did to help them out.  Homes are a huge investment thus should be protected.

I am not a complete Scrooge just a partial Scrooge.

monkeydog, I've listened to my neighbors dogs and parties after curfew.  I've walked around oil spots on the asphalt.  I haven't complained about anything to the HOA.  It's part of living in a community and they don't step over the line all the time.  If they did, that would be a different story.  Occasionally crossing my boundaries I can accept.  It's part of being human.

The HOA is giving me an extension because of the construction.  She was reasonable.  I am grateful!

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

Sounds like you have a "good" HOA in your community.

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

(OP)
IRstuff, that's pretty sick!  Makes me think of selling and moving to the country.  Thanks for the links!

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

Pat, It's Condo-speak
HOA - Home Owners Association

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge."  Ivana Trump

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

Not just condos.  Most housing developments, including single-family ones, tend to have common assets, like a clubhouse, swimming pool, green belts, etc., require a monthly assessment to pay for the maintenance of these assets.  A governing board is elected from owners within the development, and most people are lazy enough to elect the same people year to year.  My last house had an HOA, and changes to the exterior appearance of the house, like a new roof, or new paint, had to be approved by the HOA board.  

The assessments can run from as low as $50/month to $500/month, depending on the size of the development, and the scope of the common assets.  While my current house has no HOA, a neighboring development has a clubhouse and swimming pool, and they're assessed about $260/month, mainly because there are only 90 units in the HOA.

TTFN

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RE: Neighborhood Ethics

In properties with joint owned shared area we call them Strata titles and the body controlling them, the body corporate. They have no where near the power being suggested here, although I expect anywhere that the job attracts those that like to abuse the power of their newly acquired tin star.

Regards
Pat
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RE: Neighborhood Ethics

Thanks for reminding me why I NEVER want to buy into a property which has that kind of arrangement!  If I own something, I want to own it.  I'll pay my collective responsibilities through my taxes, thanks.

Back to the OP:  lacajun, the suggestion to reply to the requests for information from your neighbours in writing is the right one.  You've made a legal agreement with the builder that you cannot breach in the name of being neighbourly- the costs to you could be significant.  Your curious neighbours need to be informed of that in writing, and they need to fight their own battles.  You need to stop feeling guilty and worrying about what other people think about you- as they say, if you knew, you'd no doubt be surprised just how little (i.e. infrequently) they DO think about you...

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

(OP)
IRstuff, that had to stink for the soldier.  I read he got it back but the hassle of it all.  Who wants a hassle of that magnitude especially when you are deployed elsewhere?

We are a bunch of single dwellers with common facilities.  It's a huge development so my monthly fees are $55.  They're building more homes now after a 1 1/2 year slump.  I doubt the fees will decrease.  Many in the community use the facilities, which are quite nice.  I use the paths for running and picking up errant golf balls.

Even though the letter I received stated that a "complaint had been lodged" it was the HOA administrator who drove through the neighborhood nailing people.  So I let her know, if she had really looked, she would have seen the fence down on that side of the house, construction tape, dirt work, big tracks in the yard, new "stuff," etc.  She could have called first to verify what was going on rather than send out a threatening letter, if she couldn't guess something was out of the norm.  She ignored my comments.  I don't know why because I was very nice.

Another purpose of the HOA is to "force" homeowners to maintain their property thus its value and the value of those around it.  From that perspective, they serve a good purpose.

moltenmetal, I will not reveal the contents of my agreement to my neighbors.  It wouldn't be correct.  Since my neighbors often ignore me, even when we're all outside, I know they think very little of me, in both meanings.  I've given one set multiple bottles of wine to cheer them up a bit because they are enduring some hardships.  More often than not, they don't acknowledge the gift.  However, they did accuse me of vandalizing her car last year by smearing some white cream all over its interior.  What nuts!  big smile

So, I am back to the rightness for me to tell them which engineers I talked with so they can pursue their own paths and agreements, if possible.  I am disinclined to do so just 'cause they didn't act on it months ago, when I told them all I knew then, and they had no desire to pool efforts then.  I also wouldn't want to irritate the builder or cause suspicion.

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

Screw 'em.  Don't tell 'em squat.

 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

Screw 'em and then MOVE

RE: Neighborhood Ethics

I agree with the steps you've taken, tell them who they can go to if they ask and otherwise leave it up to them, you already did your part trying to help them earlier.  We're going through the same thing with our condo board after redoing the windows on our '85 townhouse.  They had an engineering firm put together a completely over the top spec which no companies wanted to touch.  Eventually we got one company to agree to it and then when it was all finished the condo board said they didn't like the way it looked and accused it of being out of spec.  asically all the units had shutters and normal brick-molding but the new spec required the siding cut back 6 inches and batton (smartboard?) placed on, with this the shutters were left off because they would look slly.  We sent them all the e-mails documenting us asking if the spec was correct and their replies back saying "go ahead and do the work", haven't heard from them since.

This experience completely soured me on ever owning a similar home, before this experience I thought it was working great as the property otherwise is relatively well managed.

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