Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
(OP)
Hi
I was having a chat with one of my friends whose been looking for a new job (Design Engineer), he's been for a few interviews but he told me that he becomes stuck when the interviewer asks the "tell me about yourself" question. I tried to give him an answer, but I got stuck as well. I've been thinking about this question for most of the day now, and it's driving me up the wall. Being an engineer I'm quite good at talking about science & technology, but when talking about myself I can't think of anything that sounds right.
Not kidding here but my friends answer was: I'm a man, I'm a engineer. Quite blunt but right to the point.
What would you consider a good answer?
Yours
Fish
I was having a chat with one of my friends whose been looking for a new job (Design Engineer), he's been for a few interviews but he told me that he becomes stuck when the interviewer asks the "tell me about yourself" question. I tried to give him an answer, but I got stuck as well. I've been thinking about this question for most of the day now, and it's driving me up the wall. Being an engineer I'm quite good at talking about science & technology, but when talking about myself I can't think of anything that sounds right.
Not kidding here but my friends answer was: I'm a man, I'm a engineer. Quite blunt but right to the point.
What would you consider a good answer?
Yours
Fish





RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
I am one of 5 chidren, middle child actually. I have 1 older brother, 1 older sister, 1 younger brother, 1 younger sister. I grew up in a small college / lumber mill town. I first realized I wanted to buid things when my uncle brought my brothers and I rubber wound airplanes as gift. He showed us how to assemble them and fly them. I was in complete awe in the whole concept of flight. I then would ask dozens of questions a day on airplanes, air, flight ...
After about 10 minutes they will be begging you to stop.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
But I'd guess IT types are the worst to ask this of.
My wife, by her account, managed to get one of those computer programmer types talking in the pub the other week (but since she does all the talking its pretty hard to tell if he actually took part in the conversation beyond saying "I'm a computer programmer."..... )
Social skills are not a major expectation of these people...
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
For instance depending on location they may not be able to legally ask questions that in any way relate to if you plan on having children (more relevant to the ladies perhaps but I'm trying to be equal opportunities here
They may also not be able to ask about your age, ethnic origin (though they may be moderately obvious in a face to face meeting), religion, sexual orientation....
So arguably, why would you volunteer information about any of these things, in fact it's arguably better for your interviewer if you don't. If you mention any of these taboo subjects, and don't get the job, maybe you'll bring a discrimination suit.
So then, what's left that really tells much about you outside of directly work relevant areas?
Hence it's a pretty dumb question really.
Still, beats the questions from my interview with Edwards AFB. We were in the middle of moving and I got a call saying they were interested in giving me a phone interview and they would call back a few days later for a panel interview with a few other technical types. Well I'd been a bit busy so hadn't really prepared as much as I should, and what prep I did do was more on technical/job aspects than 'how do I answer inane HR personality profile questions' given it was meant to be tech folks doing the interviewing.
Mistake, turned out it was almost all personality profile questions etc. such as "How many cars are there in America?" and "Describe yourself in 5 words" stand out in my memory.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Fe
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
I was hired in the UK for a job in the States in the late 1960's
I got asked all of the now forbidden questions and had to attach the B&W photo.
At the time I sported a beard, navy style, well trimmed.
A comment was made on my hiring papers that I had a beard.
The company paid my airfare from the UK, I duly arrived at JFK, was met, and escorted to the plant, where I met the owner of the company. His first words were "Are you here to take the job"? I thought that was a bit of a daft question since they had just paid my airfare over the Atlantic, but I replied, well yes. Good he says, "because we don't want your beard", he continued, "you can either shave the beard, or you can take the next plane out of here". The company then made it clear that if I left they would not pay my airfare.
I shaved the beard.
How do you think a company would fare if they pulled that today?
B.E.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Note that things are pretty casual at our location although I refuse to wear jeans and tee-shirt/sweatshirt to work (but some people do). No more ties (except when visiting certain customers in certain parts of the world), sport coat and white shirts only occasionally.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Tell me about yourself is a standard gatekeeper question. It was dreamed up by HR weasels with delusions of grandeur who think they're psychologists. The interviewer doesn't care about you, or your opinion of yourself. They are trying to determine if you're greasy-haired, pocket-protector carrying geek with no conversational skills, poise, or aptitude for verbal articulation. They KNOW you can do the job as an engineer. They want to know if you can fit into their organization.
Develop & practice a 30 second self-biography response that emphasizes aspects of your background suitable to the company and how you will solve all the company's problems, and why they'd be fools not to hire you and pay you an extravagant salary & bennie package.
TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Try throwing something in that is interesting about yourself but answers none of the taboo questions (I am amazing at finding four-leaf clovers) or about your hobbies (I love rollerskating and trail running). In my job, I have to talk with homeowners, builders, building departments, architects, etc, and they aren't always in the mood to be pleasant. In my interview, my boss needed to know I could talk easily and nicely, even when the other people couldn't.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Te question that gets me is "What do you want to be doing in 5 or 10 years?"
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
I was so bored, I started in about my drug abuse, prison time, failed marriages, long lost kids, etc. After she picked up her jaw and said the interview was over - I left. What amazed me was she believed it - I was only 25 and she knew that - but what I related in terms of dates and times would have taken over 20 years!!!
Reminds me of the time I entered $1,000,000 /yr under the question of anticipated salary. Again the HR person choked - but at least he laughed.
Who ever said engineers were boring!!
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
We usually locked them in a back room whenever any corporate types were visiting
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
I went to this outplacement firm and they had those type of questions mapped out.
Tell me about yourself is asking what you did professionally and then go into all the projects or kind of work you did as an engineer. So its kind of a summary of your resume just verbal diarreaha.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Guess who wins!!
BTW - I worked !!!! Mommy & Daddy ALWAYS goes to the "round file" - my trash can!!
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Now if they asked, "Tell me why I should hire you- without using the letter "e"", that would be much more fun!
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
As to the opinion about them wanting a summary of your career history, that's how I usually respond but sometimes it appears they actually want more of a personal answer.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Oh come on! That's trivial, assuming it's a knock-out, of course.
- Steve
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
"What, specifically, would you like to know?"
If they can't answer that question, then it's obvious that they never fully understood the one they just asked you.
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Quite honestly, "me" is the topic I know better than anyone or anything else so yeah, I love talking about that topic :)
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
forcedstrongly encouraged to attend job interviewing classes. This question is the number one 'weenie' question asked at interviews and the recommendation is to have something prepared, write it out, practice it and practice NOT making it sound rehearsed. Limit the discussion to work-related things. My classroom example was to describe how I was a very organized person, that I tested as 'The Organizer' on a Myers-Briggs personality test, and gave them an example of taking a disorganized condition at a former employer's office and making it organized. That's it. You really don't need to start with your birth. It also helped to throw around terms like 'Myers-Briggs personality test' because it's a topic HR weenies LOVE.Other nasty weenie questions to anticipate are,
Do you consider yourself successful? ALWAYS SAY YES! Describe a goal you had and how you met it. It does not have to be work related. It can be "I decided to improve my health, started eating healthy and working out three times a week. I lost 25 pounds and feel incredible."
What do your co-workers say about you? Obviously you need to provide positive statements, "he's such a dedicated worker", "always pleasant." It helps to have a former co-worker willing to verify your statement. Offer an incentive if you have to.
Have you ever had to fire anyone? Do not make light of it if you have and emphasize that it was a tough decision but necessary to protect the company.
What irritates you about your co-workers? DO NOT FALL FOR THIS TRAP! Best thing is to pretend to think real hard and apologize for failing to come up with anything. Do not scroll through your diary on your smart phone and tick off a dozen faults for 10 people you used to work with, even if you keep such information.
Tell me about your dream job. Do not describe the exact job for which you are applying. It will not sound believable. Do not describe a different job. They will not think you are serious about working for them. Be generic and say something like, 'a place where I love my boss, enjoy my co-workers, and can make a significant contribution to the company.'
Do you have any blind spots? Do not hand over your personal faults on a silver platter. Describe PAST blind spots and that they are no longer blind spots.
And my personal favorite, "What has been your biggest professional disappointment?" This is tough one. Do not say you have no professional disappointments, everyone does. You will sound arrogant. Pick something that was beyond your control and just provide a few details to summarize the situation.
"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
"I am the kind of person who would not waste precious time time asking candidates such pointless questions."
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
"What colour is your underpants?"
The answer will tell it all...
Fe
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
clients often ask stupid questions and if you cannot answer a simple question like these then you are probably not the sort of person they want representing them in front of their clients.
The numbers and the drawings are only half the job.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
I answered accordingly using an example where I was responsible for looking after / entertaining some sister company employees (from a different country). I got the feeling from their response that I had misunderstood the question after they rephrased it but almost the same. I brought up an example of when I looked after some visitig clients assuming this was the goal of the question. Wrong again. They made it specific to 'weekends' another answer to how I handle work social events at weekends seemed to be the wrong one as well.
Upon reflection I think they were trying to ascertain wether or not I drink at weekends and the probability of hangovers on Mondays.
Will
Sheffield UK
Designer of machine tools - user of modified screws
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
I mean, seriously...
"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
I have generally found HR stuff to not be that useful. It all depends on the personalities in those positions. They are paid to look out for the company not the employees.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Magnet: No immediate plans, so if you want to schedule me I don't see a conflict.
Long pause...
HR: OK. Tell me your greatest asset.
Magnet: I think sarcasm ranks right up there.
Longer pause...
HR: OK, I think I have enough. Thanks for coming in.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Applicant: Well, starting at $250,000 with benefits.
pause
HR: Well, we have 6 weeks vacation, 2 weeks sick leave and 2 weeks personal time per year plus a car of your choice every 2 years.
Applicant: WOW, you're kidding right?
HR: Yes, but you started it.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
All but the personal leave are fairly standard over this side of the pond (I have 28 days which is only 2 days short of 6 weeks).
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Sure, I had 25 days leave + about 9-10 public holidays. However I think I had 3 days sick, no personal time and sure as heck no car seeing as how the inland revenue were cracking down on abuse of company cars in lieu of salary.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
cloth cap, belt and braces to work, knotted hankie on head and rolled up trouser legs on the beach, socks in sandals, sand in the sandwiches ........ those were the days, eh?
Of course, the trend in recent years has been for workers to take some of their allocation to bridge the gap between Xmass and the New Year and that has today developed into an industry wide company choice....
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
My current boss first saw me when he set up an interview at the Pittsburgh airport hotel.
I got there first since my flight was a little early. Got bored, so I was looking at some nearby steel abstract sculpture ... So the first thing he sees is me looking at the welds and underneath the bent steel of the bar's decorations. Not sure if the interview went uphill, or downhill, from that point, but this particular question certainly never got asked.
...---...
If asked what are my faults, I imagine I could claim that "I'm certainly not perfect - But my only flaw is that I am too humble."
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
11years later and in danger of "man and boy" syndrome, we met in a hotel somewhere and part way through my future boss said "This is the point at which you are supposed to ask if you got the job. You did."
I can't remember any of these interviews being especially interrogative. We just chatted. But that was back in the days when Personnel departments worried about payrolls, contributions and pension schemes i.e. before they'd aggrandised themselves into PR and horned in on interviews. And in those days it would as often as not be personality that made the difference because if you got to the interview is was presumed you already satisfied the background or qualifications requirements.
On the next occasion one of the group leveraged a management buy-out and took themselves off to do their own thing(briefly, they sold themselves on - to a mercenary could care less about thee workers b***ard for double the buyout price about 6 months later) and decided they wanted me to transfer out of the parent company and join them. So although we had the mid-point pub meeting to discuss things, it wasn't exactly intense interviewing, just fine tuning the deal.
So on reflection, I guess I'd best advise people not to listen to anything I have to say about interview techniques.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
jmw, be careful about using the terms 'man and boy syndrome' and 'hotel room' in the same sentence if you ever find yourself in the SF Bay area.
"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
As I was growing up I found I had some fascination with cars and saw the Acura NSX and knew I wanted to become an engineer. I was then at a dinner party for my Mom and her friend asked me if I thought it would be interesting to understand how a soda can opened? And I said yes, and he told me Mechanical Engineering would be something I should look into for college. I then went to college under a ME degree and didn't like thermo so the counselor asked me what else I would like to do. I said I loved buildings and she suggested switching to Civil Engineering. So in the end I graduated with a degree in Civil Engr trying to find my path through college and there is where I ended up. Something that I love.
Then I would mention that my older brother is a surgeon, my sister is a West Coast manager for a big name company and my other brother has his own business. I was always given a job offer no matter what place I interviewed at.
Just be honest about how you got to what you became. And try to throw some other good stuff in there, and why would any of that sound bad? I think anyone can do this that has an engineering degree. I have never met an engineer who didn't struggle at some point in their life. The problem is that so many graduated engineers don't understand how to put themselves out there in the real world. Just throw out your life on the table and see what happens.
hint: When it's time for me to hire, I will be able to easily choose from the good and bad.
B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil and Structural Engineering
http://bwengr.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
I may have the best of all though. I had a friend interviewing for an engineering position with some gatekeeper HR person with delusion of psychological grandor. He was asked:
"If you were a present; how would you wrap yourself?"
He said "this is a waste of my time" and walked out. I don't think that was the answer HR was looking for.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Likewise, a glib response about your only fault is that you're a perfectionist will likely get you booted off any short list, as that's a sign that you are a) disingenuous, and b) that you don't pay attention to intangibles.
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
HR do not need to ask stupid questions, they can make the applicant fill out a set of forms that are nothing but dumb questions but which are very revealing in a measured and reproducible way. HR trying to be clever doesn't cut it.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
HR has no idea what an engineering department is like. One paired me with a very young woman from admin, who was clueless about it. But, that was their way of mentoring me. However, their alternative pairing would have put one of those that snuck by them as my mentor. Perhaps, they weren't so clueless after all.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
And we first noticed this when our company was acquired by EDS back in 1991 (we were a division of McDonnell Douglas at the time). Every employee was given a personal face-to-face interview by an EDS employee where you could ask questions, get details of how EDS did things and where you signed your normal new-employee paperwork (tax withholding forms, patent agreement, employment contract, etc.). The interesting thing was that NONE of the EDS people doing the interviewing were HR people. In fact, the person supervising the interview process for our location wasn't even an HR person (more on that later). These were normal EDS people, volunteers from across the business units, some mid-level managers, some technical professionals, even a few administrative assitants. All of them were doing this on a temporary basis and when the task was over, they went back to their normal jobs, whatever that was. At no time during my 'mustering in' did I meet an actual HR person.
And then a few years later, we acquired another albeit smaller company and I was asked if I would like to be on the interview team, which I agreed to. I was just one of the interviewers and I was assigned to transition people at the new companies main software development site in Alabama. Then a couple of years later I was asked to be a 'team leader' for an acquisition where again I was assigned to one the new companies development sites in Oregon.
And the last time I was involved in an employee transition, I was the overall team leader for the new companies entire West Coast operation: development, support and sales, having to take my 'team' to offices in Northern California, Oregon and Washington. And while during our 'training' for each of these activities we were interfacing with what I guess you would call HR professionals, when it came to actually doing the interviews and answering the questions most all of this was done by the teams of regular employees with only the really unusual cases having to be 'kicked-up' to HR in Plano (usually someone with visa problems or like this one guy in Seattle once who demanded that I get our corporate attorney on the phone before he'd sign any of the paperwork and then was shocked that I actually knew who our corporate attorney was, then doubly-shocked when the attorney knew ME).
Anyway, it was such a relief those 11 years with EDS after my previous 10+ years with McDonnell Douglas (until you've worked for a large aerospace company you do NOT know what it's like to have an all powerful, omnipresent HR organization intervening into every aspect of your professional life, and even your personal life at times as I was relocated 3 times while working for MDC).
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Most of my jobs were at small consultancies with no HR, now I work for a company with a HR department I still have not figured out what they add to the process.
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Sounds like an Investor Owned Utility Company
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
http://m
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
The HR potato is trying to determine your personality, so simply play along with this knowledge in mind. Make genuine eye contact, don't ramble pre-cooked stuff but instead be honest, come across naturally and display HUGE confidence in yourself (even if you feel like cr@p)
I know it's all BS but it's what they want
Stressing about WHAT to say is beyond the point, as i said they don't care WHAT you say.. Take it easy and have some fun (instead of stressing yourself out)
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Then saying "I'm a dominatrix" would be OK as long as it's said properly?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Interview Question: Tell me about yourself?
to me it seams that this question is just to figure out if you got both feet on the ground. they don't care what you say until it starts sounding out of the norm. if you have a hard time answering the question i have a feeling it will count negatively.