Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
(OP)
I'm coming up to my 2nd year review at an engineering firm and I'm wondering what my market value and compensation should be at.
After my first year, I received great reviews from the partners and they said I was the future of the company, had a great work ethic and I took on much more responsibility than other engineers with my experience.
Here is more info
- Small Company < 25 employees
- MEPS Consulting Firm
- Located in an expensive area
- I've had 2 summer internships with the company
- Hired full time after graduation
- I've passed my FE in college
- I'm a LEED AP
- My degree is BS Architectural Engineering
- First line of Contact w/ my architects (clients)
- Attend some meetings/site visits alone
- Maintain all of my relationships with my architects without losing work
At my one-year review, I explained my wanting of being compensated in line with the work load and responsibly they have become to expect from me, especially in respect to other engineers of my same experience. They explained the "responsibility" was for my "own good and experience". In response to the "average" salary from ASCE, they responded "what about all of your peers whom don't even have a job in their field".
I know I'm in a great place - I have a job which I love. I'm gaining the experience needed to sit for the SE. But I still feel like I'm being "taken advantage" of.
I need some advice on how to get my mind right - and put these worries behind me.
Thanks in advance. Feel free to ask anymore questions.
After my first year, I received great reviews from the partners and they said I was the future of the company, had a great work ethic and I took on much more responsibility than other engineers with my experience.
Here is more info
- Small Company < 25 employees
- MEPS Consulting Firm
- Located in an expensive area
- I've had 2 summer internships with the company
- Hired full time after graduation
- I've passed my FE in college
- I'm a LEED AP
- My degree is BS Architectural Engineering
- First line of Contact w/ my architects (clients)
- Attend some meetings/site visits alone
- Maintain all of my relationships with my architects without losing work
At my one-year review, I explained my wanting of being compensated in line with the work load and responsibly they have become to expect from me, especially in respect to other engineers of my same experience. They explained the "responsibility" was for my "own good and experience". In response to the "average" salary from ASCE, they responded "what about all of your peers whom don't even have a job in their field".
I know I'm in a great place - I have a job which I love. I'm gaining the experience needed to sit for the SE. But I still feel like I'm being "taken advantage" of.
I need some advice on how to get my mind right - and put these worries behind me.
Thanks in advance. Feel free to ask anymore questions.





RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Then out of the blue a couple months later I got a massive pay raise, so you never know.
Sadly, I can't guarantee the same for you.
You could, and perhaps should, start looking elsewhere but your experience is still on the low side.
Sorry I can't be more helpful.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Sadly, that seems to be the prevailing thought process (especially right now). I have 5 years experience, recently passed the PE, have a lot of responsibility (even for 5 years of experience) and workload (almost always 55+ hours). I always do whatever I need to to make sure the work is done and correct, that I've explored all avenues, and have meaningful dialogues with my bosses. My opinion is respected even by the principals, but my salary lags far behind what it should (< $55k). I'm expecting a pretty big raise coming up very soon, but we'll see.
That being said, I stay where I am (despite the pay) because the work environment is so appealing. I get to work on really cool projects with top tier architects. My input and opinion are respected by everyone I work with. I have a lot of autonomy and freedom. The projects are always interesting and varied. There are NO office politics, no whiners, and people generally help out where they can.
I've often considered moving on, but I'm honestly a little scared about what a job at another firm would be like. My boss is a good engineer, but a better person and boss. The firm is caring and genuinely treats the employees like family. I recently went through a life-changing experience and my company was extremely supportive and is even allowing an extremely flexible working environment for me for the foreseeable future.
That kind of environment makes it difficult to leave, regardless of pay.
If I asked for a raise and I was told, "you should feel lucky to have a job".......... well, that would piss me off. Maybe a, "we're not in a position to give raises right now", but the response given really just sucks. It's like saying, we don't care how good you are doing, we're not going to pay you more because we don't have to. I know there are some here that will say that's business, but that's not the type of company I want to work for.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
The Engineering director left, and I think they were concerned several of his 'new hires' were going to follow and we were in the middles of some significant projects where they wanted continuity.
Still, goes to show you don't know what's around the corner.
Tend to agree with Greg about wanting to get over the 2 year mark, though I'm not sure I can back it up with any empirical evidence.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Option 3 eludes me at this point, but alcohol may be involved.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
I am in Australia though, and just looking though the recent salary threads seems like the pay here is much better than the USA.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
It seems to me that all to many business leaders/owners are using our current economic situation as an excuse to increase their companies efficiency and income without increasing overhead or pay raises for their employees.
Well, have you heard the old saying, that you can't get blood out of a turnip?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
You definately should be making more that just inflationary rises, but I would encourage you to bite the bullet and focus on getting the best experience possible in the first couple of years. Make careful record of your experience and lessons learnt and this will put you in a good bargaining position when you choose to move on.
Certainly dont wait around as long as lion06 apparently has.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Is one alias not good enough? Does it help that your multiple personalities are able to argue with each other on a public forum? :)
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
To the OP, I would be gracious with your employer if they mentored and trained you (and hopefully continue to do so). I wouldn't expect a significant raise until at least year 3, if still feel jipped, then consider moving. Do it while you're young!
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
@ KENAT - I will continue to work hard in hope for market value in the future.
@ Greg - I did "hit the ground running" when I started after graduation. I had two summer internships with the company previous to full time employment. They knew what they were getting. I already had a 6 month introduction to typical procedures, everyday coordination and the exact type of consulting they provided. My only "real world" experience has been with this company. While, I love the work and the people - grass does tend to look greener, but I'm afraid of it turning out not to be.
@StructuralEIT (I have been lurking around here for awhile now) - Most of my projects are "hand-holding". Low rise commercial is exciting to me because of the large quantity of projects. I'm always looking at something different, the shop drawing stage doesn't last too long and I have multiple projects and architects I work with each day. The part I don't like is that my learning and attention from my SEOR is rapidly decreasing. Since I've displayed competence, my boss tends to leave me alone and I feel like I have to "beg" in order to get any help or direction. I always tell him that just need to be "pointed down the right path", but getting even that has been a struggle.
@shacked - My company recently laid off 33% of the engineers/designers. The structural department has been super busy since I've been there, but the other specialties have been sitting around wanting more work. Many of the architects now only use us for structural only - rather than all of the specialties. This is the reason why I haven't received a bonus since 2009. Even though my projects are successful, I feel like I'm only subsidizing the other departments to surf the internet. This is a huge reason for me asking for more compensation. I want my successes to pay some dividends. I work hard to make money.
@csd - You have a point I do understand. But my problem is that I only have a couple of others to compare my work too. These peers are my measuring stick. They have also maintained their jobs with the company, which leads me to believe their work has been acceptable. I'm not trying to be compensated in line with an engineer w/ their SE/PE or 5 years experience. I'm asking to be compensated for an engineer with 2 years experience per Go Structural and ASCE.
B16 & Mike - My boss has trained and mentored me from day one. He was a great teacher, sadly he hasn't been doing much teaching lately as I've proven I'm able to get projects out in an efficient matter, while problems with other engineer's work keep him busy. Experience will always come before compensation. I will not leave my job solely based on compensation. I want to continue to work in Architectural Consulting, no matter what.
I like to bowl too. But just because I like bowling, doesn't mean I don't want to keep score.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
1) Reading your thread it sounds to me that your good work ethic has been recognised - you were not retrenched and that is saying something in this day and age.
2) Although your training has slowed down - due you still talk to your boss about other aspects in your work life - does he know how you feel?
3) Stick it out for another year or so and get more experoence and get to know your clients better - while at the same time, see what else could be on offer with another company
4) Don't just go to another company because of money - the work 'environment' aspect mentioned above is more important. A good working environment is a healthy working mind and a bad enviromnment means it is time to move along to the next challenge and perhaps to a better boss.
5)Good luck - we all went through this in out engineering lives.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
However, allow me to add a different perspective on things with my experience...
Just about 5yrs in with the same company since college (started in the low 40s, just broke 50k this year). Will be taking the PE exam on Friday (2nd time unfortunately). The company that I work for does mostly municipal wastewater work. When I started, I was expected to "hit the ground running" as well. Unfortunatly I did not have a true mentor in the company. Just people who told me what to do and how to do it. My personal experience here has been very poor and it is a struggle to come in to work and get things done everyday. My goal in my professional life was to work on projects much like you and most others on this thread are working on, but I did not get that opportunity out of college. I'm glad I have a job, but I am not happy. I have been trying to move on (have had some leads, but nothing came to fluition yet) but the market here in the midwest is abysmal at best. So I am trying to stick it out as long as I can keep my sanity and keep blood pressure down.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that things can be a lot worse, and don't let the fact that you feel undercompensated detract you from the work that you enjoy doing. Remember what I said above and I think you'll be fine.
Good Luck
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
On being a young structural person: I think we're in a tough industry - especially vertical buildings. There's so much competition and we get so much pressure to come in with really low fees. By nature, because of the complexity we often face in design (that seemingly escapes owners and architects) we must take the time to carefully arrive at a final design that really works, covers all our bases, and is build-able and economic. Some projects this is cut-and-dry, others not so much. I'm really surprised that the current trend in compensation isn't more favorable, but looking at industry, I can see why.
@Gerry: Sounds like you have all the right stuff. I'd look 5 years down the road and decide where you'll be in the best position then. If you've got upper management written all over you and your current firm can get you there, stick it out. If Six figures is never in your future no matter how hard you work, move on.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Possibly because they have shortages of people with that level of experience that are willing to jump firms for that compensation level?
I'm a recent graduate myself, BS in 09' and MS 10' with about six months experience at a small Arch/Industrial consulting firm. I came in with a friend of mine that graduated BS 10' from my college. We are both making well below what ASCE, Salary.com, Go Structural and any other body that issues surveys says we should be making mainly due to how easy it would be to replace us and the current economic climate. My firm recently hired on a PE with 5 years experience (just received his PE)and had to pay out approximately 35% more than either of us are receiving to lure him away from his old firm. I don't think he really tried that hard at negotiating either from the feeling I get from his personality.
I think right now AEC is something of a reverse bell curve. You have loads of talented people on either end of the experience spectrum but little in the middle.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
So is 35% is a fairly "standard" growth rate for the first five years of employment then? Roughly a seven percent salary increase a year? I don't know, that seems high to me unless you're jumping firms every two or three years. Especially considering how hard the last two or three years have been on most AEC firms.
Although when I punch numbers on his circumstances in the online sites, it IS below the median, although not quite below the 25th percentile like my comrade-in-arms and myself.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
My point is, you shouldn't feel taken advantage of if your company invested the significant amount of time to train you. Think of all the billable hours YOU took out of their profitability to get you going. This training that you received can be taken to whichever company you choose, for the rest of your career. You're only at the 2 year mark, and I dont think you can immediately fault them for wanting a little return on their investment.
Honestly, you sound a little overconfident and ungrateful.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
@jtx - Thanks for your insight. I could be in a MUCH MUCH worse of situation. I like to think I'm where I'm at because of my hard work, not because of blind luck. I love my job and I enjoy waking up for work every morning. I'm constantly thinking about the current "fire" or problem I'm attempting to solve at work. I don't plan on burning my bridges, thats for sure.
@VTEIT - My company doesn't have "positions" or "job titles". We are simply referred to being part of an individual department. While my responsibilities and workload is ever changing, a "promotion" could never happen, as I don't have a job title. I'm given the work I'm able to get done, and as I learn and gain more experience, I'm given more and supervised less.
@Mike - Thanks for the heads up. I got the magazine Friday at work, but didn't have a chance to page thru yet. I'll take a look.
@B16 - I do agree that they have invested in me. I'd like to think all of the time I spent making $12 an hour (w/o benefits) during college was a great way to minimize the companies hit on profitability. But I do understand I did take away many billable hours away from the principle, who helped guide and teach me all I know. BUT, I'm still having a hard time justifying receiving a salary at under market value. The facts are that I did work at the company before becoming a full time employee and graduated. If anything (compared the market), my hit on profitability would be LESS than the average because of this. So I'm not sure I can agree based on that justification.
Lastly, I could be overconfident. I'm ok with pushing at management and understanding its risks. I want to take risks. I'm young and I don't have dependents. I'm not stuck at my location. I come to work everyday to learn as much as I can, and work as hard as I can and make money. I have nothing else to worry about. I'm committed 100% to my work as I've put it ahead of everything else in my life. I refuse to be content. If that means I'm overconfident and ungrateful, so be it.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
I think you are right on the money (no pun intended). The fact that they were able to spend all that time training you at a deeply discounted student rate is significant to your current value to company. Based on the level of responsibility you have described, I'd say it has paid off for them. You should most certainly be making at least the industry average for your region. It even sounds like you even have a good case to be a little above that.
If you like everything about your job except the money, then I would stay put for a bit. At the next year-end review or meeting in which salary is discussed I would reiterate your concerns and back it up with reported salary data. See if their attitude soon changes. They may be more motivated to give what you deserve once the market regains some strength.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Interview at a few places and see what they offer you to give you a real market value. I'm not sure gostructural is all that accurate and/or unbiased.
the grass is always greener on the other side isn't it?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
It does sound like you have a fair amount of responsibility for 2 years experience. While I agree that your employer should not have said to you that basically you are lucky to have a job...the fact is there are a good number of engineers in some parts of the country who don't have a job. You are in a pretty good position in that you aren't tied down to your employer. You can either keep working hard, have a good attitude and prove to your employer why you are worth more, go find another job or go get some job offers and use that as leverage to get more compensation. Those are in my order of recommendation, since you state you are happy with your current employer. Using a job offer to get more compensation can backfire on you unless you are extremely valuable to your company and know each other very well.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Thanks for the advice everyone. All of the opinions really do help me put my situation into a better perspective.
I will continue to put experience first, and work towards my next goal of becoming a licensed SE.
Thanks again.
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
I know most people don't like threads being dug up, but I was wondering if you could follow up on this now that it has been a few months. I am in a similar situation myself and just feel like I'm being low-balled even though my department is the most profitable part of the company (small structural dept in a medium sized arch firm). I myself am PE/SE bound, staring to manage my own profitable projects and like you am happy with where I am at.
I was hired out of a bout of unemployment (a year), having to relocate across the country and was willing to work for peanuts as long as it was a good engineering job (and it is). Because of this I accepted the position at a salary less than the average until I could at least prove my worth.
Any advice?
RE: Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations
I'd be happy to provide an update.
I'm currently still with the same employer. At 2 years my employer ended up giving me a 5% pay raise. The week leading up to my date, the company decided to cut everyone's hours 10% and also cut pay accordingly, except my department since we were still busy. Under the circumstances, I was pretty happy with the pay bump considering most others were having their time/wages cut.
Almost 3 months later my department is still stacked with work, and quality is starting to go out the window. My boss has spent maybe 10 hours of review on my calculations/drawings and the job is 100% CD. The building is over 20 million construction cost. I know we are strung thin, but I'm a little disappointed in oversight/direction of my boss. Its only a matter of time until problems occur.
I ended up pursuing another position were they wanted 3-5 years experience and master's degree. It was at an Architecture/SE firm that does projects 2x-10x the size of my current. It is what I would consider a step up from my current job. I made it to the final 3 applicants, but ended up not getting the position.
I still have my eyes open for new jobs, but I'm not finding too many. I'm getting a decent amount of calls from a recruiter, but none have been structural design for architects. Most have been specialty engineering (I like dealing with steel/concrete/wood/masonry) and contract positions.
What I've become to realize is that jobs like mine are very few and far between. I've basically accepted the fact that I'm stuck here until I pass the SE. I've also been focusing on my relationships with the local contractors/architects/engineers.
As for advice?
I don't really have any. Be happy that you wake up everyday to a job you love. Develop business relationships. Notice where you can improve you companies practices. Start saving up your money. Prepare for the time when you can be the one providing the jobs.