×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?
5

Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

(OP)
I guess this is a good and bad thing. Our company is busy and i work at two different locations for my organization. Other people within my group do similar things but few have to cover as much geographical distance as i do.

In any event in my current group to take anvacation, you must find someone to cover your work while you are  gone, we are contracted out to other organizations so not sendingnyour backup is not an option.

In any event i have alot of time built up and its a use it or lose it aituation, but management still needs to approve your time off.

On one hand i should feel goodmthat its tough to replace me, but i am dying for a vacation! Anyone else in this boat?

I havent taken more than a 3 day weekend since early 2009.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I don't ask for vacation.  I take it.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I have not taken a vacation in 4-5 years. My current job (2 years) I'm the only engineer, besides my boss, and have not had time to take a vacation...too busy.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I am lucky if I can squeeze a 4 or 5-day weekend in as "vacation" once a year.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I've always been able to use my vacation.  Sometimes it's a fight, but making sure there are enough people to cover for vacations isn't my problem.  I always give my managers at least a month notice for anything over 1-2 days, but if they can't figure out how to live without me for a week at a time a couple times a year they have bigger problems than managing vacation.

I'll not take a specific set of dates if there's a good reason for needing me present.  If this got to be the norm rather than the exception I'd start fighting, but haven't had to get to that point yet.

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

am lucky to even be working with this lousy economy, so taking a vacation is not hard - paying for it and the gas is harder

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

AT my last company it got so bad that Management introduced a policy of "use it or lose it"... and allowed you to roll over vacations from one year into the next but no further.

I lost a lot of vacation time that way and I was far from the worst offender. The problem for the company is that if you accrue too many vacation days,then they have to find extra cover when you do take your days.
Now if HR wanted to do something useful, they could keep track of vacations and "remind" (enforce) people to take them.... and pigs might fly.

They were not inclined to pay in lieu and they were getting a good deal - they pay you during vacations and if you work, that is like working for free.

On one project, I put my time in the office during the week, then flew to Portugal to aid in some trials (which involved working very long hours late into the night because that was when we could "play" with the plant.)
This went on for some time and when I asked about time in lieu I was told it "went with the job".

It ought not to be your responsibility to find cover while you are on vacation, it ought to be the company's.
You ought also to be entitled to take time when it suits you, provided you give plenty of warning.
You ought to be able to get time in lieu if you have to work unreasonable or unusual hours.

If it ain't in the contract, it doesn't "go with the territory".
These are the lessons to learn and stand up for.
Otherwise management will win all the way down the line.

As a last resort, tell management they'll have to break it to the SO.
 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

3
At one time in my earlier career I had risen to the level of 3 weeks vacation.  My sister was dying of cancer and I was denied my vacation requests seven months in a row.  So I had to make short visits over weekend trips to see her 1200 miles away.  She passed away and I was not able to see her as much as I wanted to (but I'll see her again, soon enough).

I'm much more militant and demanding about my vacation now, and I force any so-called "Manager" to do their job and provide cover for me.  If you pursue this course of action you, too, will find that the world does not stop turning because you are not available.  And the ego-rush you get from thinking that you are indispensible is simply a lot of worthless fluff.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Just turn in your request for leave, and when it is denied ask for an extension on the time to "use it or loose it."  You are doing your part and trying to take what has been promised to you, and what you have earned, but are not being allowed becuase it inconviences someone else.  If you do this a time or two (and have it in writing) it won't take long and the bean counters will start to notice how much leave you have accrued and how much they would be liable for if you cashed in and took another job.  They will make sure you take the leave then.   

Use of product voids warranty.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

You have to find someone to cover for you?

That's ridiculous.

It's your management's responsibility to assign someone to cover for you after you inform them of your vacation plans.

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Wow I find some of the posts above amazing. I have worked for 36 years and never had any major problems taking holidays.

There are some restrictions, for example many companies shut down for the period between Christmas and new year and some shut down for a two week period in the summer when you are required to take holidays and every company I have worked for does not allow certain people to be off at the same time and it is highly unlikely that you could say I am having three weeks off starting next week, but that seems reasonable to me.

I have in the past "sold" holidays back to the company at 1.5X but that has always been my choice and also something the company wanted or they would not have offered.

The current minimum holiday entitlement in the UK is 28 days (5.6 weeks) a year so anyone not taking holiday for 5 years would have effectively worked six months for free, I find that amazing. I wonder how many would offer to work 10% of the time for free?
 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Time for us all to move to Europe then.... smile

peace
Fe

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

If you do move to Europe, expect a significant pay cut.  Back when I was shuffling, £1 == £2.5 in salary terms, regardless of the exchange rate.

- Steve

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Typo.

£1 == $2.5 in salary terms.

- Steve

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

So it's the classic money vs. vacation time choice. Sometimes seems our choices should be more based on what we "like to do" or what type of engineering job we would "like" to have rather than how much money we will make. Of course, everyone needs a decent bit of money to live well but that does not deviate the substance of the point.
(sorry, a bit off topic)

peace
Fe

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I certainly agree that from what I have read the salaries are higher in the US whereas the rights of an employee are better in Europe. I doubt many would actually believe the maternity rights over here now.

What I find amazing is that given the poor holiday entitlement (by European standards) is that people cannot even get that time off.
 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

No, I have to confess that in my case and in the case of fellow workers we just didn't take our holidays. It was a benefit to management but to be fair, they mostly wanted us to take our holidays (except for the "goes with the territory" manager I had briefly, till they found out he was an idiot even by management standards, and promoted him into another division).

Gee, those were the days, when you enjoyed what you were doing so much you didn't go home at night and didn't take holidays...
at my last job it was 28days, as SG says (he forgot to mention the bank holidays that come extra)... of course, it goes without saying that I virtually never ever was off sick.
WE had one guy everyone called "Sick-Note" because he was always off sick..... so he got his 28days and then some.... (if you were sick during your holidays, you booked extra holidays...or some people did).
Now there is maternity leave to take as well...which can be legally shared between partners...
I'm not surprised the country is going to the dogs...

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

PS there was a degree of concern to discover that railway ticket collectors and toll booth operators also had trouble taking their time off.... until it was noted that when they did take a vacation there was always a surge in the takings...

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Not quite sure why JMW is having a pop at me, we normally agree on most things (except that I don't buy the Telegraph).

I have colleagues in one of our American offices that need to "burn vacation".  Because they work for a UK company, they get too much to know what to do with and end up spending days at home in their underwear, mixed between "working from home" and other activities.

- Steve

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

SomptingGuy:

Quote:

Not quite sure why JMW is having a pop at me,....

I wasn't aware I was.....

I just said:

Quote:

...at my last job it was 28days, as SG says (he forgot to mention the bank holidays that come extra)...

PS I don't mind that you don't buy the torygraph...honest...

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Actually the bank holidays don't come as extra; the minimum  legal entitlement is 28 days including bank holidays.

 Of course any company can offer more than this but they are then free to add restrictions to how these may or may not be taken in your contract as they are outside the legal minimum requirement.
 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Quarterly mini-vacations, actually long weekends, are a good idea. Explore your own region; you don't need to travel extensively to restore yourself. I am doing more car travel vs. airlines. I have decided to upgrade my car with the money that goes otherwise to the airlines.

Another travel scheme is to take advantage of a job that includes much travel. I take side trips in between business calls. Also, I schedule travel to run into the weekends. At one time it was a cost reduction in airline travel to run the trip into the weekend.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

(OP)
Sorry I haven't responded back, I was resting on the only vacation I sometimes have Saturdays and Sundays!

Still waiting to hear if I'll be off the end of the month. I have a feeling that ticket is going to be ridiculously expensive but I am willing to pay it just to get out of the country for a week or so and see my wifes family. That is assuming we can do it.

She is busy in nursing school and working as well so she has only this week as her chance to go somewhere this year.

If this doesnt happen I want to try to take a ton of Fridays off. I am going to lose approximately 60 hours of vacation time soon. Use it or lose it indeed.
 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I have found that the best plan of action is to proceed as follows.

1) Make the request and get it approved 2-3 months in advance. I find that my wife and I are easily capable of planning things out this far in advance, but for some reason, managment can't really look that far ahead as far as daily or weekly needs.

2) The moment approval has been recieved, buy tickets, make reservations, ect. Now you are committed. (If you are staying at home, plan out some equipment rental or weekday show)

3) When management informs you that you will be needed, your responce is, 'OK, well, I already but tickets and made reservations in advance and have outlaid $XXXX, you want me to cancel, I will need reimbersment and you get to break the news to my wife"

4) Regardless of the percieved emergency at the time of your departure, it will still be there waiting for you when you return.

In all fairness, I have yet to need to use number 3, but I have always had good managers. number 4 has been true every time.

A question properly stated is a problem half solved.

Always remember, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it!  

http://www.ap-dynamics.ab.ca/

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

(OP)
Colonel Sanders this is great advice.

I did talk to my boss at the end of February about it, but the details weren't worked out. If I had them worked out it would have been almost exactly two months ahead of time.

Last week when I had some details ironed out it was one month ahead of time. So far I have received no response, which means I can't buy the ticket yet.

Since we dont' work in the same office routinely I don't have the advantage of asking him in person often.

Someone pointed out that management shoudl find someone to cover for us. Well that is true and many of the other engineers are pretty upset about having to find someone to cover for themselves. It sure does make it an extra challenge.

Hopefully this will be resolved this week.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Col Sanders is dead on.  I have used #3 occasionally, but the company has always backed down (I think the threat of bringing the Mrs. into the equation does it).  #4 is very true, even if the "cover" person has attempted to put out the fire, you will have plenty of mess to clean up upon returning.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Management and HR need to get together sometime and sort these things out properly.
Both Management and HR love forms and procedures (and meetings which we need to avoid) so if there are problems organising and taking your holidays then you need a form and a procedure with due dates for various people to sign off.
If there isn't one, create one designed to make booking your holiday straightforward and let HR steal, er, take credit for it it.  

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

If I don't take my vacation, my wife and kids will find a family member who will.  I like my job, but I like my family more.

This year we have a really weird situation - the boss got tired of tracking people taking a day here and a day there, so we're allowed one week taken a day at a time, the rest taken a week at a time.

It's not my problem finding someone to cover for me - that's the boss's job.  Frankly, if my boss expected me to find someone to cover for me while I took earned vacation, I'd hit the road. At some point, management has to be expected to manage the business.
 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I agree with the tick, I tell my employers well in advance when i am going to take time off. If they cannot come up with a suitable cover arrangement then that is their problem not mine as I have given them sufficient  notice.

I am the only Civil/Structural engineer in my company and they have to outsource any work if I am not there.

You have an employment contract that specifies the number of days holiday that you are entitled to in 'that' position not in some fairyland position where you dont need cover.

You americans are always more worried about losing your jobs than you should be.
 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Our team has monthly review meetings.  The team is spread across three countries, so it's a good time to catch up.  One of the questions is always: "Is anyone planning any significant vacation in the next two months?"  And the answers go into the product planning spreadsheet.  This has nothing to do with HR or any leave booking/management/approval systems, just a convenient way for the team to plan coverage within itself.  It tends to work really well.

- Steve

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

"You Americans are always more worried about losing your jobs than you should be. "

Be fair csd72, you tend to be worse off in the US if you lose your job than you would be in the UK.  Health Coverage is usually through your employer.  Retirement benefits may not be fully vested so you lose a bunch of that.  The unemployment/welfare etc. is generally less favorable.  It's easier for the employer to get rid of you without cause.  Even if you get laid off by law they don't necessarily have to give you severance...

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Oops! What happened to Obama's health plan then?

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Where is the US?

Kenat, I agree that the consequences tend to be more over there but I am yet to see the evidence that you are more likely to get laid off.

I do admit though that when I worked over there the economic situation was considerably better.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I use all my vacation every year.  It is a benefit of my employment, in fact, since it is in writing, I consider it a contract.  It is part of my agreed upon compensation.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

(OP)
Well I postponed my vacation and hope to go in June. Will update when I know. But certainly need to plan further ahead I guess.

Spend alot of time adjusting my schedule to cover other people off on vacation as well, hopefully they won't make it so tough on me.
 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Beware the "these are tough times and most people are just glad they have a job" speech...... ignore and insist on your entitlement because if you have so much work to do you can't take your vacations, things can't be that tough and you are in a sellers market... they evidently depend on you so much, they can't allow you holidays and hence they can't afford to lose you.

This ought to be a position of strength.

In a use it or lose situation, if management make it so tough that you might lose it, they have to either cut you some slack or buy your entitlement back off you, and not at standard rates either.
Of course they won't. But technically they will be in breach of contract if they deny you the opportunity to take your full entitlement within the allowed time limits.
 
They won't want to offer any money for your lost entitlement but they might allow you, as a special favour, to carry them over and use them later. If they are the reason you cannot take your holidays then they cannot void the entitlement.
There may be no alternative but play hard-ball with them.

On the plus side, if it is so hard to find the time to take off, they will be in a real mess if you decide you've had enough and if they think you may be getting so fed up as to quite, they may actually do something. This has to be a subtle suggestion to them.

So if it doesn't go well, then this is the time to google new job opportunities using your work computer and post your CV on a few sites where your own HR may find it. Just one or two googles will do, enough so the IT weenies will grass you up to management.
 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I am not sure that searching and applying for jobs during work time and using work equipment and giving your employer an ideal opportunity to dismiss you is ever a good idea, whatever the circumstances.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Just a litte food for thoughs:

I once heard a priest tell that he had spoken to many people who was about to pass away - and never had he heard one of the say "I just wished i had spend more time at work".

Life will pass you by - and theres no turning back.Im not saying that work is uninteresting or even fun at time - just that you should remember your oriorities and why you behave as you do, and to whom you are loyal.

Best regards

Morten

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

ajack1, agreed, in general circumstances.
In this case we see someone who cannot take his vacations because he is valuable to the company.
The use of a couple of googles is to send a subtle message. This is not advocating wholesale use/abuse.
Plus it is deniable. Job sites have people looking for jobs as well as jobs looking for people. One can always claim to be looking for suitable contract hires to enable one to go on vacation.... whether the company would pay for that or not.
Besides which, when you have accrued vacation time and it reaches a use it or lose it stage, when you are so vital that you cannot take that time and management is unsympathetic and may even hope you do lose some of that time, and they want to discipline you for a couple of minutes googling, then maybe you need to be looking seriously for a new job.
Never bind the mouth of the ox that treads the grain...
Disciplining or firing someone for a few minutes is not a clever thing for any company to do. This isn't an office junior who sends all day googling you tube etc and who can be replaced with a single phone call to the job centre, this is a senior valuable professional who they can't spare for his holidays and they probably couldn't profitably replace in a year or two.
How stupid would it be for management to actually fire him?

  
 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

Well, no, Kenat, you have put your finger on a weak point in my argument... but then again, it would be nice to know just how stupid they are if you are losing vacation time for them....

Reminds me of the time they IQ tested our managers and were unsurprised the results came back negative....

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

I love reading this thread.  Once again I'm reminded to put in for my next vacation.  Last one was so tiring I need a vacation to recover from it...

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

First thing you need to do is buy a dirt bike. Once you have done that you go trail riding or the likes of that on the one day you do have off and wreck it hurting your leg so bad that you can't walk on it.
There is no choice after that right smile

Please don't go to that extreme (don't ask me how I know). Just manage your time well, delegate some responsibilities and take off before you are so numb you won't know if you hurt yourself anyway. winky smile

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

The day they (employers) start denying me my requested and entitled vacation time is the day that they (employers) stop seeing me taking work home at night, coming in on weekends to meet deadlines, and all of the other things of that nature.  Twenty years ago, I worked for a company for 4 years as a *junior* engineer, and in 3 of those 4 years they called me back from my vacation early.  It wasn't worth working in a place like that.

Now my tact is a bit more hard-nosed.  I don't ask when I can take vacation, I tell them when I am taking it, and they just have to trust my integrity enough to know I won't set them up with something that leaves them "stranded" without me.  I figure that as long as I am being fair, so should they be.  For the most part, that works.

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Anybody else having difficulty taking vacation time?

This thread is a bit long and a bit old so I admit I skimmed a bit so I might make redundant statements.

1) In Aus we have pretty much 4 weeks annual leave dictated by law. The timing may be included in the contract, like plant shut down for Christmas/new year/summer holiday (Christmas is summer here. For some the shutdown is when they must take leave, for a few it is when they may not.

2) In case of dispute over timing the law says the leave falls due every year 48 weeks after the last anniversary of the start of employment. ie 48+4 makes 52 to complete the year.

3) We do have laws to protect us against such abuse.

4) If you truly love your work as I mostly did, leave is not all that important, but til an entitlement.

5) A decent financial manager will set up an accruals fund, usually in a separate account and deposit leave owed there as it falls due. That way the money is spent as though you took the leave and is sitting there for you. Only problem is if you earn leave at X$ and take it at Y$ pay rate.

6) A use it or lose it, but you can't use it policy is plain outright theft, just like mugging someone. If they seriously take time off you for leave entitlements they denied you taking, they are bullies and thieves. To think some people say trade unions have outlived their usefulness. I cannot think of a better reason for industrial action if there is no law to protect you from this abuse.

7) rmw and ColnelSanders are both spot on.

8) Treat people as you find them. If they steal from you, at very least don't give anything for nothing, however don't do anything that is unethical or illegal. If your boss steals from you and abuses his power over your financial status, it's time to find a new job. leave on absolute minimum notice required by law and take everything that you are legally entitled to within the law, including any goodwill you have with their clients. You cannot take their IP, but you can be on a mission from god type crusade after you leave.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm
for site rules
 

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources