Retaining wall failing
Retaining wall failing
(OP)
New here - not sure if I'm in the right area or not but need assistance please.
Have retaining wall on residential property. "2 blocks high" at one end, 9 ft high at the other - curves around corner of house – double deep in one area (on a slope). I do not believe drainage was done properly. There are no "weep holes" and there is not an area below that allows water to exit from behind the wall. There is a culvert below the ground that it might be tied into. Retaining wall is separating in two areas with gaps of 5 to 6 inches between upper and lower block. Cap blocks are disintegrating as well.
Due to drainage and wall failure, corner of house is "dropping" and creating cracks in walls and ceiling inside the home as well as the cinder block in two different areas outside.
There is no record of a permit from the city (required) and the company will not reply to my emails to even a general inquiry about the wall or even the manufacturer of the block. Former home owner had it built, and rebuilt at least one time. Wall is 12+ years old.
Wondering if contractor would be responsible being a permit wasn't pulled for the damage that is being done to the house as well as rebuilding the wall properly. I live in MN.
Appreciate any help provided – or a direction I can go. $20,000+ for a new wall, my insurance won't even look at it unless we dig the wall out and expose the corner of the house that is sinking.
Please help! Thank you in advance
Have retaining wall on residential property. "2 blocks high" at one end, 9 ft high at the other - curves around corner of house – double deep in one area (on a slope). I do not believe drainage was done properly. There are no "weep holes" and there is not an area below that allows water to exit from behind the wall. There is a culvert below the ground that it might be tied into. Retaining wall is separating in two areas with gaps of 5 to 6 inches between upper and lower block. Cap blocks are disintegrating as well.
Due to drainage and wall failure, corner of house is "dropping" and creating cracks in walls and ceiling inside the home as well as the cinder block in two different areas outside.
There is no record of a permit from the city (required) and the company will not reply to my emails to even a general inquiry about the wall or even the manufacturer of the block. Former home owner had it built, and rebuilt at least one time. Wall is 12+ years old.
Wondering if contractor would be responsible being a permit wasn't pulled for the damage that is being done to the house as well as rebuilding the wall properly. I live in MN.
Appreciate any help provided – or a direction I can go. $20,000+ for a new wall, my insurance won't even look at it unless we dig the wall out and expose the corner of the house that is sinking.
Please help! Thank you in advance





RE: Retaining wall failing
After just going through an adjustment with an insurance company for wind/tree damage, you should sit down with your claims adjustor and work out a plan. You might have your attorney at that meeting also...
RE: Retaining wall failing
I would expect that the attorneys will cost you a minimum of $5K to $10K. You would have to pay for the lawyers yourself out of pocket, so the attorney fees will reduce any recovery that you may be able to obtain.
RE: Retaining wall failing
RE: Retaining wall failing
Sent another email to my insurance company to find out if is something that is even covered being the wall is needed for integrity of the house.
I hate cans of worms...they are always so damn big!! I'm ready to open the can o' woopass on this though. All I need is for the house to fall apart and it not be covered...icing on the cake.
THanks again.
RE: Retaining wall failing
RE: Retaining wall failing
As for the attorneys fees, if you do not ask for them, you will not get them, but asking does not guarantee that you will get them. As for the original contractor, in today's economy, he may not be in business anymore. Is he still bonded with the State?
Sounds like a real can of worms. Nice present from the former inlaws!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: Retaining wall failing
As best I can tell (without tearing it down of course) is there is nothing holding the block together - no morter, no adhesive etc - which I don't know if that is necessary or not, but it was noted. In the section that is separating - about 3ft wide in 2 sections - there is no rebar/steel visable.
It is straight up, no tiering or grade to the wall so to speak. I would think that a wall that high - with block - would need some sort of "slant" to it - but again, I don't know.
When we had another landscape contractor out last year to look, they said they could get the caps replaced through the supplier - I believe it is Versa-lok. I was hoping to at least do that.
My husband did most of the talking with them so I am not exactly sure what they determined with the wall except that it was done very poorly and should be redone.
I am so frustrated and cannot afford to have it redone - in the mean time, I am losing the corner of my house and just found out it is considered "foundation settling" and is not covered under my insurance policy. :(
RE: Retaining wall failing
Still looking for a loop hole to get this fixed and not have it be ALL out of pocket...working with city now...
Again, thank you for your help.
RE: Retaining wall failing
RE: Retaining wall failing
I will post a pic of the full wall once my DH sends it to me. Get ready to shake your head...
RE: Retaining wall failing
"Weep" holes are not required because of the vertical joints between adjacent block and quality backfill must be used and perforated pipe is usually recommended if it is suitable.
The 5" to 6" spacing between the walls is troublesome. If they are tiered walls to avoid the 4' or 5' height code requirements, they should be separated by many feet horizontally.
VersaLok is sold to both contractors and resale markets, so there it becomes difficult to determine the liability beyond the contractor. There also many "knock-off" brands made by others that do not have engineers available for support.
If the wall was rebuilt and failed a second time, it sounds like a poor, amateurish design.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
RE: Retaining wall failing
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and a close up of one of the gaps
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And another shot - more crumbling block UNDER cap as well
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RE: Retaining wall failing
Waiting for the encore.... Can I laugh?
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: Retaining wall failing
RE: Retaining wall failing
So what you are saying is it is all due to freeze/thaw? Is that typical? How do "you" keep it from happening? How do I save my house from sliding down the front hill?
Does all block crumble like that in this situation? It's not happening on the other side of the house, but it is not the same block.
You can laugh - at me :)
Thank you
RE: Retaining wall failing
Just post the other pictures before Happy Hour so we have something to discuss.
By the way, since this a worldwide forum, our happy hour runs 24/7.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: Retaining wall failing
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in this pic you can (hopefully) see the white "lines" on the house where it is coming apart.
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This is the ceiling in the basement - has been "filled in" but I can stick my finger in it.
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This is the corner that is coming apart
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and the walls upstairs - have all been patched so not sure how easily visable it is.
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and more outside
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That's all I have.
RE: Retaining wall failing
I think you need to call in a Geotech here. It is warranted.
I will continue looking...
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: Retaining wall failing
RE: Retaining wall failing
Considering what happened, the jurisdiction should be willing to work with you.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: Retaining wall failing
RE: Retaining wall failing
Looking at the geography and trees surrounding the home (and living in the area for many years), it appears that as earlier posters commented on, are correct that this was a hillside site the was excavated for the foundation and basement and later filled. The wall construction followed later without any real engineering and using segments to partially get around some unenforced permitting requirements and neglecting the upper wall segment loads that allowed the settlement/distortion and possible loss of support for the home foundation.
I was involved in the early use of segmental retaining walls and later, during international travels (Europe, China, Australia, South America, etc.) and saw some amazing engineered walls in harbors or along a freeway with set-back walls and individual walls over 40' high. All of the major product developers/ franchisers/licensors have good engineering support for all engineers to consult with, but because of the rash of firms being able to produce similar units there have been many poor examples due to miss-use or poor quality control. I was also a part of a durability study on the problem of the caps that involved many DOTs, etc to arrive at a standard, which hopefully has been corrects by ASTM product and testing standards. One of the big problems was the acceptance of silicone to provide an attachment of the solid cap block to the wall.
In our area, the counties and municipalities have standard construction and use standards for use in the field regarding the routine use of low gravity gravity walls (under 5' high) for road realignment/widening, sidewalk construction, but rely on the approved suppliers to assist in the engineering.
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
RE: Retaining wall failing
The segmental block wall quite possibly does not have filter fabric or a drainage layer behind it. It appears, as Mike noted, that the foundation for the wall has failed at least in an isolated location. Considering the gaps there is likelihood of some lateral material drift, which reduces or changes the density of the material under the house, thus might be a contributor to the observed settlement.
Agree that you need to fix the house foundation. Pin piles or helical anchors would likely be the better options. Both can be installed with relatively portable equipment.
The wall can be disassembled and rebuilt on a proper foundation. You have some obvious freeze-thaw damage to some of the blocks. Be sure to consider that when you re-purchase.
RE: Retaining wall failing
cvg - you are somewhat correct. The house (duplex)is built into a hill, but to the best of my knowledge, it was not filled. The house to the west was excavated to be flat, and has a cinder block retaining wall from the end of my wall to the back of the property line - all others around are level with our back yard - and my street (front yard) is level with the street and neighbors to the west. Swampland to the north, neighbors retaining wall to the east. So there is a defined hill that the house was built into - not saying there wasn't some sort of fill being it is "3M swampland" in the front. Correct - drain pipe leads directly into the wall with no exterior exit - but possible tie into culvert draining into swamp.
House built in 1976 - by an electrician who cut every corner he could from what we have see thus far. Yes - thank you former in-laws so much for the money pit. Now I know why they did a "by owner" sale. Ugh...what a headache. So if I understand correctly, I need to contact a geotech and an engineer to have them come take a look-see. And they should be able to help determine what is causing what? Recommend anyone in MN - twincities area?
RE: Retaining wall failing
since the basement wall was originally built at grade and then later soil was placed against it and retained with a wall, additional load was placed on the concrete basement wall. that wall may or may not have been designed to handle the additional soil load. Could that additional loading be causing additional stress on the basement wall which is then transferred to the structure above? - thus causing the cracking that is being atributed to foundation settlement?... Will the insurance policy cover that and can you prove it?
RE: Retaining wall failing
Also, if you could identify the manufacturer of the wall, a technical rep might be willing to give you some free advice on a remedy. No one likes to see their product get a bad rap.
RE: Retaining wall failing
I would recommend you get a structural/civil engineer involved that has experience at underpinning/subsidence surveys. It is like sherlock holmes detective stuff sometimes and it is often the minute clues that you find on site that tell the true story.
Compared to a proper survey, the comments on this site are mere educated guesses.
Not sure that you could sue the previous owners as houses are usually sold 'as seen' but we are not really the people to ask. From my experience a non legal solution usual has a more predictable outcome (can you afford for 50k plus of legal fees if your case fails?)
Focus on ensuring that the house is adequately supported first as this is the most expensive structure.
Not sure where the 20k sum comes from but I imagine that the damaged parts of the wall could be rebuilt and the capping stones replaced for considerably less.
Dont stress too much about the cracks, I have seen much worse, and most cracks are really an aesthetic issue rather than a structural problem in themselves.
RE: Retaining wall failing
RE: Retaining wall failing
Again, thank you everyone. I was just at a trade show in Vegas for ICPI and tossed around many conversations. Heard a lot of the same things there as I did here...which didn't surprise me.
I will keep you updated.
City got back to me - they have no record of any permits being pulled for this property except for the roof we replaced last summer. That didn't make me very happy. She even had the IT Dept go through archives...nothing. Wish I would have known these things 8 years ago. Hind sight...