×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools
5

Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)
I'm wondering if anyone has had any experience with low cost or open source engineering tools. I've been kicking around some design ideas that I'd like to get a little bit more serious about developing in my spare time. I use Linux at home, but I'd be willing to install Windows if it were necessary to get work done.

There are a few types of software that I'm looking for, especially CAD and FEA software.

Obviously Pro/E, UG, CATIA, and even Solidworks are pretty major investments. Nonetheless, I'd like to find some inexpensive software that can create parametric solid bodies, technical drawings, and mechanical assemblies. I've been using QCad thus far, which is fine for 2D, but a 3D CAD tool would make my life much easier. I'm wondering if anyone has had any experience with FreeCAD, VeriCAD, OpenCASCADE, or Alibre. Of course, I'm open to other solutions as well. If it could generate IGES files and ParaSolids for analyses, that would be a bonus. Any experience or suggestions?

Additionally, I'd like to have some FEA ability. I don't even know if "cheap" FEA exists, but I'm aware of some free codes. The most promising that I've seen is CAELinux, which can run the Calculix solver, but I'm not sure how well it actually works. It seems as though they can handle assemblies and contact. If there were some low-cost FEA out there, I'd be interested in that as well. Most companies don't post prices unless you contact them... usually if you have to ask, it's too expensive in my experience. Anyhow, any war stories or suggestions are welcome.

A free 1D flow network solver would be great (pipe flow, etc.); any ideas?

Other than that, I've had great luck running Octave with the QtOctave front end for general problem solving. It crunches through numbers almost as well as MATLAB. The only thing missing are a few of the fancy functions and tools that MATLAB has, but I don't intend to do any heavy-duty controls work.

Thanks in advance for your help. There's quite a bit available out there, especially in the realm of CAD, but I don't want to waste time trying out something only to find that it's insufficient or just plain doesn't work. I'd definitely be interested in hearing about both good and bad experiences with inexpensive software (the bad ones let me know what to look out for).

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)
A couple more interesting low-cost CAD programs that I turned up: Bricscad and GraphiteOne. There's a long list of software at this site: http://www.tech-edv.co.at/lunix/CADlinks.html
But, I'd wager that most of it is not practical to use. Thanks again for any suggestions.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

BRL-CAD is unusable by normal people. FreeCAD is not a CAD program.

OpenFOAM is a full feature CFD package that went open source a while back. At least one Automotive OEM uses it.

Calculix is a bit better than you imply.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies  http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

I've not used Briscad, but I run Intellicad, which I thought was basically the same thing, and don't have a problem with it.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/
 

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

flash3780
I use Alibre, You can download it free, but it turns into a gutted out program Called "Alibre express" in 30 days if you do not purchase it. That program is still useful you just have to work around items, things that you can do in one keystroke in other programs take 3 or 4 in express. The professional version that I use, will generate sheet metal parts, and read IGES files from other programs like Solid Works, or pro/E.
B.E.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Greg... I've been using Bricscad for about 6 months... it almost works like 3D Autocad (only a few features missing), and costs half the price of LT... Got it because my new laptop (old?) did not run my edition of LT well with Win7... Not been disappointed.  It has no difficulty loading and editing an 8 meg 3D file created in Autocad... only notable thing is that when it is re-loaded into AutoCAD, the program notes that the drawing was not created using AutoCAD... but, loads it flawlessly...

In 6 months, I've had it lock up twice and it gracefully recovered the files... Had more problem with my LT2002...

I don't regret having purchased it, it's a very good.

Dik

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)
Thanks for the advice. That's great news about Calculix; I'd seen some examples on Youtube, but they looked pretty rudimentary. Nonetheless, it apparently takes ABAQUS input files. If it has most of the features of ABAQUS, I'm sure that it's very good indeed.

OpenFOAM sounds like it's better than I expected it to be, as well. CAELinux looks promising; I think that I may try it.

I'll look into IntelliCAD. It's good to know that someone is using it for actual engineering work. It seems like there are some reasonable CAD alternatives to the big names brands. I'm wondering if anyone out there has done any sort of comparison of features?

I've read similar things about BRL-CAD being unusable. Another one that seems pretty out there is VARKON, and perhaps PythonCAD.

Haha, FreeCAD isn't a CAD program, eh? That's funny. Looking at their demos, they didn't seem to mention any drawings. Maybe it's more of a solid-modelling tool.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)
That's great news about BricsCAD. It looks to be on par with VariCAD and IntelliCAD for price. Actually, BricsCAD is a bit cheaper than VariCAD considering they don't charge you extra for a year of upgrades. I wonder how the features compare...

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

google sketchup

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)

Quote (HDS):

google sketchup
Can Google Sketchup produce engineering drawings? I was under the impression that it's more of a pure solid-modelling tool.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)
Gah! Looks like CAD options are limited in Linux. IntelliCAD is only available for Windoze, and the Linux version of Bricscad seems to be fairly limited in its capabilities.

It's not that I refuse to use Windoze if the tools that I'm looking for are available there, I just prefer Linux (I find that it uses fewer system resources). Nonetheless, if quality tools aren't available for Linux, Windoze it is.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Draftsight seems to be working ok in Wine/Fedora14.
It's only claimed to be 2D, but it seems to have some 3D functionality too.
 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Look more at the Code aster that comes with CAE linux. It is written by the French nuclear power utility. It is not your typical open source software.
 

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)
I mentioned VariCAD in an earlier post. Has anyone tried it? It seems to be a full-featured design tool.
Here's what I'm thinking for a full complement of (inexpensive) design software:
- CAD Software: VariCAD seems good for Linux. Allibre, IntelliCAD and Bricscad seem to be good options for Windows.
- FEA/CFD Software: CAELinux w/Calculix and OpenFOAM might just get me by for complex analyses
- Spreadsheet Software: MS Excel is great, but the commercial license for Office is surprisingly pricey (MSRP $499).  OpenOffice is a great alternative.
- Engineering Analysis: Octave/QtOctave is really really good alternative to MATLAB. I've also read that Scilab and Freemat are good.
- Electrical Circuit Simulation: SPICE seems good - and free.
- Flow Network Analysis: I'm sure there's something out there. FlowMaster is pricey. I suppose that I could write my own, but who wants that hassle? I'm thinking that I should go into business selling pipe flow software for what they charge for a seemingly simple program. Suggestions?

Let me know if you have any suggestions that I could add to my list.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)

Quote (HDS):

Look more at the Code aster that comes with CAE linux. It is written by the French nuclear power utility. It is not your typical open source software.
Sounds promising. I was worried about documentation (in English) being available for Code Aster, but if it's good software, perhaps it's worth muddling my way through.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

I wasted huge amounts of time with CAELinux 2007 and 2009, and couldn't come up with a combination of hardware that would cleanly run all the modules from the live CD/DVD.  

Installing to a hard drive turned into a disaster, twice, as PCLinuxOS slowly updated itself into nonfunctionality, and Ubuntu did the same thing, drive itself into update hell, only much faster.

I kept beating on CAELinux in hope of coming to understand it well enough to use it on real parts, because the demos worked pretty nicely and produced some impressive graphics.  Note that the docs that come with 2009 mostly reflect 2007, and there are substantial differences.  I found better docs for 2007, but they're mostly in French, which eludes me.


Maybe CAELinux 2010 will do better, but it absolutely requires a 64 bit computer to even start, and I don't have one.

 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

I have been using Alibre and like it a lot.  Very good value.

The CalculiX solver is also great, but you have to be aware of its limitations. The pre/post processor is fairly crude though so for basic models I have been using Excel to manually generate meshes and build decks. I am going to look into Roshaz though since it will work with Calculix. Salome is another pre/post but I have not looked into that yet.

Brian
www.espcomposites.com

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)
Ok, so from the sound of it CAELinux has issues. Nonetheless, I believe that it comes with Salome and OpenFOAM; I was thinking Salome could be used as a pre/post for CalculiX, and OpenFOAM apparently is reasonably good CFD software.
Perhaps it would be easier to install each program separately, based on the issues that Mike mentioned.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Unless it has been improved beyond all measure the open office spreadsheet is a pathetic substitute for excel, as used by most engineers.

There is a reasonable argument that excel is abused rather than used for engineering, but that is a different matter.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies  http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Suprised to see no mention of TurboCad as an AutoCAD substitute.  I've never used it, but have heard good reviews of it.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

If you choose to install a substantial fraction of CAELinux's applications independently, I'm guessing you will  run into Update Hell, or Incompatible Library Hell, or Some Other Ghastly Software Problem Hell.

The earlier versions of CAELinux pulled together a lot of disparate applications that were evolving separately from each other, and I think there were, if not adaptations, at least selection of specific sets of non-necessarily-latest versions of the applications for minimum incompatibility.  

If you have a 64 bit computer, please do try CAELinux 2010 from the live DVD before you try installing the components.
... and please report back to us about it.  


 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)

Quote (tygerdawg):


Suprised to see no mention of TurboCad as an AutoCAD substitute.  I've never used it, but have heard good reviews of it.
I'd looked into TurboCad; it looks fairly good, but $1300-$1500 is getting up there on price. I wonder how it compares to Bricscad and VariCAD?

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)

Quote (GregLocock):


Unless it has been improved beyond all measure the open office spreadsheet is a pathetic substitute for excel, as used by most engineers.

There is a reasonable argument that excel is abused rather than used for engineering, but that is a different matter.
Sure, OpenOffice Calc isn't as good as Excel. But, I find that Octave is more than capable of bridging the gap in capability. I've definitely seen folks do impressive things with Excel, though.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

If you sign up for the TurboCAD demo, use it up, and then demonstrate a little sales resistance, the asking price becomes _very_ competitive.

 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

SMath Studio is an open source version of Mathcad.  It's pretty decent.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Flash3780... my copy of Bricscad was half that... and it comes with lisp, vba and a couple of other programming environments...

Dik

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

We went with OpenCascade (http://www.opencascade.org) for a while.  We got exactly what we paid for.

- Steve

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Something to consider if you are just doing this at home on your own. Use a student edition. Usually wanting to learn the software will qualify you for the purchase, but even having a child in elementary school will work.

NX7.5 - http://www.journeyed.com/item/Siemens/NX+/100965802
SE - http://www.journeyed.com/item/Siemens/SOLID+EDGE/100965801
WF5 - http://www.journeyed.com/item/PTC/291455/1480863
SW - http://www.journeyed.com/item/SolidProfessor/SolidWorks+Training/100974466

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

I love Turbo Cad for great 2D.  I could teach my 7 year old grand son to use it.  Course he can whip my butt on Call to Gory (Glory)  I have never really tried it in 3D.  You can pick up used copies on Craigslist or e-bay.  Not sure what that does about licensing - so be careful.  They are on Version 17 - I think.  Only pick the odd numbered ones - 11,13,15 etc.  Do not know why - but they seem to work better and keep up with the updates - they issue them frequenlty and are free.

If you can find an old version of 11 - you will love it!!

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)

Quote (MiketheEngineer):

You can pick up used copies on Craigslist or e-bay.
Good call. I've looked into used software in the past and had no luck, but I looked up TurboCAD on Ebay and voila, $300 (one version back).
It sounds like there are some good options for low-cost 3D CAD. I wonder how they compare to one-another.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

I haven't used TurboCad, so I can't compare, but Intellicad has two big advantages for me:

1) Excellent Autocad compatability - if you know how to run Autocad, you can run Intellicad.

2) VBA support - so you can integrate with Excel.  The object model is a bit different from Autocad, so there is a bit of translation required if you want to run an Autocad VBA routine on Intellicad, but it's not too hard.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/
 

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Guess I'm out of touch.  A few years ago, TurboCAD was a $79.95 type of program.  Now it's a $1000+ program.

What changed?

 

Software For Metalworking
http://closetolerancesoftware.com
 

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Mostly the _initial_ asking price.
 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

A cheap (free) FEA solution to be used as a plugin in AutoCAD is AutoFEM (Lite). Havent used it yet, so dont anything about the possibilities and/or limitations.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I thought that this might be useful to those who are looking: The Fedora Electronics Lab seems to have quite a few electronics design tools with a well-thought-out workflow. I believe that it's available on a live CD or bundled through the yellow dog update manager (yum) for RHEL based Linux distributions (Fedora, Scientific Linux, CentOS, etc.).

"yum groupinstall 'Electronic Lab'"

Link: http://spins.fedoraproject.org/fel/#home

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Fedora requires root privileges to accept the command.
Given that, you also need a large hard drive:

Transaction Summary
======================
Install     394 Package(s)

Total download size: 578 M
Installed size: 1.7 G


 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

(OP)
Yeah, you pretty much need root privileges to install anything when running Linux... one of the reasons that I like it.

It's definitely a big package of programs, though. I'm still playing around with it, but there are a ton of goodies in here.

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

I'm still downloading; 358/394 packages so far.  Huge.

 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Now installing 334/394....
 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Low Cost/Free Engineering Tools

Installation completed without incident.
I like Linux.
 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources