Motorcycle design software
Motorcycle design software
(OP)
Hello,
I am looking into software to design motorcycles. I should say that this is an amateur project (started by a few engineers) hoping to develop into something more. It is something along the lines of "What if we never tried...". A geeky dream for engineers. We don't plan to mass produce it but we do plan to make a few and do track days with them. If we find other track day enthusiasts interested, good. If not, we'll still have our toys. :)
The motorcycle frame will be designed from scratch.
- It will have a trellis frame (most likely; at least for the first generation)
- NOT a chopper
- we won't even attempt to design the engine and gearbox for the first generation(s)
- shocks will be Öhlins (most likely)
What I want to know: What software packages do you think are suited for this particular task? We need something that can blend with FEA and CFD software. The CDF software will be used to design the air intake and the exhaust. Also the CFD software will be used to some extent to simulate the air flow around the fairing. We want to do some vibration analysis and frame/swingarm simulations.
How do Catia V5, Ansys and Fluent work togather?
We are engineers but we are not automotive/mechanical engineers so this post will probably be a baptism of fire for us.
All suggestions are welcome.
I am looking into software to design motorcycles. I should say that this is an amateur project (started by a few engineers) hoping to develop into something more. It is something along the lines of "What if we never tried...". A geeky dream for engineers. We don't plan to mass produce it but we do plan to make a few and do track days with them. If we find other track day enthusiasts interested, good. If not, we'll still have our toys. :)
The motorcycle frame will be designed from scratch.
- It will have a trellis frame (most likely; at least for the first generation)
- NOT a chopper
- we won't even attempt to design the engine and gearbox for the first generation(s)
- shocks will be Öhlins (most likely)
What I want to know: What software packages do you think are suited for this particular task? We need something that can blend with FEA and CFD software. The CDF software will be used to design the air intake and the exhaust. Also the CFD software will be used to some extent to simulate the air flow around the fairing. We want to do some vibration analysis and frame/swingarm simulations.
How do Catia V5, Ansys and Fluent work togather?
We are engineers but we are not automotive/mechanical engineers so this post will probably be a baptism of fire for us.
All suggestions are welcome.






RE: Motorcycle design software
CATIA, NX, Wildifre, SolidWorks, SolidEdge will work to design your frame and create files that can be used by other systems. With NX, you can use an integrated Nastran and I know it does work with CFDesign. Wildfire and Mechanica are integrated, also.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: Motorcycle design software
We only have experience with Autocad 2D design (work) and a bit Fluent and Gambit (college classes). The software learning curve does not worry us too much (we don't have a deadline or other commitments) but we would like to choose a package and stick with it.
We want to take an engineering approach to this. Our main worry is making something that will brake/crack under braking load or something that will flex so bad it will cause a crash.
After we make it safe, we will try to make it fast. :)
We plan on using a 600cc engine that will make about 120 hp.
So I would say that simulation is more important to us than making the 3D model.
RE: Motorcycle design software
The next part to consider is manufacturing your design. That is easier to get done by local shops than the design.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: Motorcycle design software
Harley-Davidson uses Pro/Engineer.
Dan Gurney at All-American Racers uses NX for their Alligator motorcycle line.
Honda has Pro/Engineer for powertrain, but not sure if that is just cars or both.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: Motorcycle design software
We talked about the costs and we have set our budget at $100K for everything (software, engine, suspension, brakes, everything).
We are thinking that we are better off if we spend more on software that will help us make very accurate simulations than spending on building the actual thing over and over again to make a small improvement. The software can be used for future motorcycle projects. The poorly designed parts cannot.
RE: Motorcycle design software
You may be better with a mid range product like Solid Edge or Works, they have add ons for FEA & CFD that may be more or less integrated. However, I don't know for sure how good the analysis packs are. Also, with FEA & CFD while I believe they've got a bit better you really need to know what you're doing to use them or you can get a lot of 'GIGO'. This has often been lamented on this site, people running FEA without really understanding what it's doing or validating their models.
I believe I've seen motorbikes, or maybe was it a scooter, done in Solid Edge so it's probably possible.
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RE: Motorcycle design software
RE: Motorcycle design software
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John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Motorcycle design software
Also, we are not looking to reinvent the wheel of motorcycle design and development.
We know from the college classes that knowing what you're doing is a key element in CFD. I'm sure FEA is the same.
So far from what I've read the most appropriate packages for us would revolve around Catia and NX.
Catia has Abaqus. Don't know how it rates against Ansys.
Fluent might be a little overkill for the aerodynamics since a motorcycle's aerodynamics are not that important but we have worked with it a bit and we liked it. Also, I think it will be very good for the air intake and exhaust design.
RE: Motorcycle design software
Thanks for the links!
If you have any more suggestions, don't hesitate to write them.
RE: Motorcycle design software
For a review of the breadth & depth of what NX and Siemens has to offer in this area, go to:
http:/
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Motorcycle design software
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?
RE: Motorcycle design software
OpenFoam is a fully functional professional CFD that went open source a few years back. It is used by at least one automotive OEM.
Real automotive engineers tend not to use the bundled analysis packages, they export the solid models and mesh them up in other packages.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the FEA, the reality is that you don't know what the loads really are.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Motorcycle design software
RE: Motorcycle design software
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RE: Motorcycle design software
Anybody have a good link for open source non linear FEA? I need to do some elastomers.
RE: Motorcycle design software
As for non-free programs, I've used ABAQUS and ANSYS. They're both top notch software and will do an excellent job of analyzing most anything that you throw at them. They're a bit pricey though.
Check out this thread for some low-cost/free engineering tools that you might be interested in:
http://www