Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
(OP)
The only thing I could find regarding the question was a topic of the discussion in Salmon and Johnson's Steel Structures book. To dictate a shop weld, the authors indicate a note in the tail specifically stating the weld is to be a shop weld...otherwise the weld isn't specificaly stated as one or the other. Does anyone know of a specific AISC or AWS section that discusses this?
Thank you.
Thank you.






RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
BA
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
Lots of engineers will have a general note somewhere that welds should be made in the shop, except where specifically noted as being a field weld.
What's going on in your specific case? You want to make a weld in the field but the drawings don't show it as a field weld?
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
Having said that, a weld that is stipulated as a field weld should be field welded; if it cannot be field welded, there may be a legitimate cause for an Extra to Contract. At the discretion of the EOR, it may be shop welded.
If the weld is not stipulated as a field weld, then it may be either field or shop welded, at the discretion of the Contractor, or sub-trade. If it must be field welded, any extra costs are between the Contractor and sub-contractor to resolve. Be careful that you do not instruct the Contractor that it *must* be field welded unless specifically shown as such...
My 2c, Dik
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
If the Engineer requires specific welds to be performed in the field, they shall be designated in the contract documents.
If you're not requiring that the weld be made in the field, this implies that nothing special is required on your part. If you have no preference over a shop weld or field weld, it would seem to me to be at the contractor's discretion, as means and methods are his responsibility.
The source of the clearance problem may be another area of discussion. Did the contractor select a certain construction sequence that led to this clearance problem? If so, and if more expensive welding results from it, that's his problem, a consequence of the methods he chose previously.
If the detail wasn't constructable, and the weld really could only be made in the field, perhaps it is back on the Engineer to have shown this as a field weld in the first place.
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
To answer your philosophical question...unless you know that a field weld will be detrimental to the structural efficacy of the member or structure, let the contractor decide means and methods. You can do this with a general note on your plans or specifications that if the contractor wants to submit field welding in lieu of shop welding, they may do so and it will be reviewed.
Keep in mind that field welds are often "out of position" and made under environmental conditions that are significantly less controllable than in the shop...so expect that more effort will be required to achieve the same weld quality in the field.
Require all the proper documentation for the welders and procedures, whether field or shop. Require a higher rate of testing for field welds.
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
I'm staying out of the means and methods, BUT the fabricator/erector is basically saying that I spelled out the means and methods of erection by showing a weld without a field tag, which in turn he interprets as a shop weld....hence my original question.
My personal opinion of the situation....it's the very last steel to be erected on a job in an economy where the projects were consistently coming in under budget, so there is probably some money trying to be made here or recouped. Were this not the case, it probably would have been done without any issues.
Thanks again everyone for your thoughts.
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
flag = field
no flag = workability (shop or field)
Most of the time with no flag, depending on what the welds are for, shop fab wins out over field welding.
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
BA
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
I don't buy it that no flag means shop weld only. How do you just show a weld, that can be made in the shop or in the field? Do we have to put comments in the tail of each weld symbol saying "This weld can be made in the shop or in the field"?
RE: Does weld symbol without field tag explicitly state a shop weld?
Some types of field adjustable connections would be where I would specifically show a field weld.