Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
(OP)
We are primarily needing a lead alloyed with copper and or other elements to harden the material and improve the machinability to run in a lathe. We also need the improved strength and would prefer non-ferrous alloying but have considered other alloys.
I am not a metallurgist so I am trying to learn from you guys about the molecular bonds of these alloys. I cannot seem to find too many lead alloys that have an appreciable amount of copper. I found one called C98840 but cannot find it available anywhere or familiar with it.
We will need to machine .500 and .750" rods of this in a lathe. We have milled pure lead but turning will be a different story because the deflection of the rod in the lathe becomes an issue.
I am not a metallurgist so I am trying to learn from you guys about the molecular bonds of these alloys. I cannot seem to find too many lead alloys that have an appreciable amount of copper. I found one called C98840 but cannot find it available anywhere or familiar with it.
We will need to machine .500 and .750" rods of this in a lathe. We have milled pure lead but turning will be a different story because the deflection of the rod in the lathe becomes an issue.





RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
Lead and antimony is the standard mix for bird shot. A few % of Sb gives much harder shot than pure lead. You can also alloy small amounts of tin and smaller yet amounts of calcium to get even better strengths (but calcium might be tough to control due to its reactivity). From my good old materials notebook, values are tensile strength, elongation (of chill cast material, extruded material is much better), and density in lbs. per cubic inch:
Chemical lead (pure): 2.4 ksi, 45%, .41 lb/cu. in.
Pb-1Sb: 3.0 ksi, 7%, .406
Pb-4Sb: 4.0 ksi, 10%, .398
Pb-6Sb: 4.2 ksi, 12%, .393
Pb-8Sb: 4.6 ksi, 13%, .388
Pb-9Sb: 4.7 ksi, 15%, .385
also:
Pb-.08Ca: 5.5 ksi, 9%, .41
Pb-.08Ca/1Sn: 9.0 ksi, 17%, .41
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
Let me better explain what we need. We need to simply improve the strength of a Pb allow. We are working on a custom firearm round where we need to machine the sug instead of cast it. It has been proven in the industry that Pb/Sb alloys for casting will vaporize at high firing pressures. We need to reduce the deformation. We can machine a solid copper slug but at the cost of weight. jackets slugs are common as dirt but they can suffer from balance issues.
It would be best to have an extruded alloy that has a much more consistent density and machine from solid.
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
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RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
I had heard that Cu made for a very poor alloy in Pb so I have to wonder why it is being done. I have my nose in the books right now to determine if there is an alloy out there that will help.
Also, I would like to ask about possible material property improvements with extrusions? Being somewhat outside my area of expertise here. We primarily machine Al. Could the extrusion process in itself drastically improve properties by machining from solid rather than casting when working with Pb? Obviously is far superior in aerospace Al applications so I have to ask the question.
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
http://www.plansee.com/tungsten-densimet.htm
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
Can anyone recommend a facility to contact regarding assistance with these questions? I seem to be running into places that just sell the stuff but have no idea about alloy properties, etc and I am well out of my element with Lead.
I don't think we can used Tungsten for this just because the price will be just out of sight for such an application.
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
Pb/Sb alloys "vaporizing" - you mean the bullet fragments, or does it truly melt and vaporize? At some fairly high speed, yes, you need a jacketed round or a different alloy I think, because the lead is smearing and melting where it contacts the barrel wall. Pb and Sb have similar melting points, so I don't think you will get much better there. Can you use a sabot?
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
I called several places and they either do not call back or know nothing. I would sure think there is a way to improve the strength of Pb but this may be just an effort to remake an impossible wheel.
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
http:/
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
http://www.ila-lead.org/
http://www.ilzro.org/
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"The richer we have become materially, the poorer we have become morally and spiritually." Martin Luther King Jr
RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
I always thought Bearium was a centrifugally cast alloy - I've never seen it as a powder alloy, although it wouldn't surprise me if it was.
More info here:
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RE: Help finding lead-copper alloy. high lead,
You could well be right, I had PM on the brain.