More perks less pay ???
More perks less pay ???
(OP)
I see plenty of jobs going unfulfilled in the ads and they mostly have one thing in common.
High demands and intrusion on personal life.
Apparently these "we want to own you" positions are becoming difficult to fill even in these miserable economic conditions.
I find this a good sign. I want Engineers to demand more quality of life and less pay so this factor will work into employers expectations.
Some of the things i would like to see go away.
1 24/7 on call with pager.
2 PTO vacation management with no sick time.
3 Frequent travel requirements.
4 Frequent weekend work in addition to full weekday work.
So how about it guys, lets kick back and consider NOT buying that boat or new car and spend the difference on our free time.
Engineers have for too long been workaholics.
Balance makes best eh ???
Do you agree ??
High demands and intrusion on personal life.
Apparently these "we want to own you" positions are becoming difficult to fill even in these miserable economic conditions.
I find this a good sign. I want Engineers to demand more quality of life and less pay so this factor will work into employers expectations.
Some of the things i would like to see go away.
1 24/7 on call with pager.
2 PTO vacation management with no sick time.
3 Frequent travel requirements.
4 Frequent weekend work in addition to full weekday work.
So how about it guys, lets kick back and consider NOT buying that boat or new car and spend the difference on our free time.
Engineers have for too long been workaholics.
Balance makes best eh ???
Do you agree ??





RE: More perks less pay ???
RE: More perks less pay ???
RE: More perks less pay ???
I love my career choice. I feel a great responsibility to clients and projects, so I sleep with my cell phone, take a lap top on vacaction, and travel when ever required. Now that I have kids, I work after they go to bed to allow me to spend time with them on a daily basis.
My weekends are mine, but I answer the phone if it rings.
This attitiude seems to have paid off with promotions and salary increases. I have not traveled much in the last 3 years, but I just booked a trip to Maui with my wife and kids, with my frequent flyer miles.
My wife is very understanding, more than likely since she is an engineer as well.
RE: More perks less pay ???
It would be great if I could trade some money for more time off. Something like unpaid vacation. Unfortunately many positions, mine included, requires that I keep things moving along which entails close involvement with the happenings at work.
RE: More perks less pay ???
In past I've deluded myself into thinking that I needed to work 70+ hours per week for months on end to meet my employers' commitments to a customer, or to keep some tin-pot start-up afloat for a while longer, but I'm now completely cured of that disease.
My weekends have always been my own, aside from occasional business travel. If anyone asks, I say it's for "religious reasons".
If people are rejecting positions with absurd working conditions, I too see that as a positive sign. If those absurd working conditions are truly required and there is no work-around solution that can be found, the people who will put up with them deserve to be handsomely compensated.
RE: More perks less pay ???
But I get unlimited sick time (have had this at most companies), and great pay. The medical could be a little better. I never paid a dime out of pocket at my last place.
But I sacrificed a few perks for a better position and a great raise.
If you don't get what you want, leave.
However, I am getting to the point of making a lateral move to see if I can get better hours. The evenings are for family, and this place cuts into that too much.
RE: More perks less pay ???
I've had the opportunity to do both roles with the same company and really enjoyed each role.
The problem comes with engineering companies that really abuse their engineers. Interviewed with a company that told me to expect to work 60-70 hour weeks and that my salary would be based on 40 hrs, with no OT. I asked my interviewer why they would undersell their jobs like that. His response: "Oh we charge our clients for every hour you work, but you only get paid for 40 hrs per week". The rest is profit for the company! Needless to say, I didn't accept the offer.
There are companies out there that value what engineers bring to the table and treat them well. If your company doesn't to that, then you need to make a change. You can buy that boat and have time to enjoy it.
RE: More perks less pay ???
I couldn't do 60+ hrs, I work to live not the other way around.
RE: More perks less pay ???
If you fail on a project because you did not have enought time for it, you will be rewarded with less work, and maybe fewer pay rases.
RE: More perks less pay ???
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: More perks less pay ???
RE: More perks less pay ???
That, and some jobs need that kind of response. Outages in some plants can have costs that go into the millions per day, and that cost doesnt stop after 5pm and on the weekends, and if work I am responsible for is going to take place, I want be there for the good of the folks who employ me. (It's happened before, it will happen again, I don't get overtime for it, but I don't think I am being paid poorly even if my coworkers do, or I wouldnt have taken the job)
Really, each of us decides what work we are willing to do for what pay. If jobs like the one first mentioned dont get taken, they will have to change their expectations in terms of demands or offered salary, as you mentioned. That, or absorb the costs associated with looking for a perfect match for their offer.
RE: More perks less pay ???
RE: More perks less pay ???
Well, I'm not sure but there may be some link to the lack of flying carpet parking at most employers.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: More perks less pay ???
RE: More perks less pay ???
I could certainly take a 40% pay cut without fretting overmuch, but then I have always been pretty mercenary in my attitude to pay. So far as I'm concerned I have only one life to live and if my employer wishes to use that life up they can pay accordingly. Otherwise I'll take the time to do things I really want to do.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: More perks less pay ???
RE: More perks less pay ???
Obviously there are still a lot of people out there who confuse employment with indentured servitude, even if the pay sucks. People need a life distinct from their work, or they're headed six feet under about a year after they retire. That life outside of work doesn't just happen: it needs time to grow.
I want my pay to match my value in the marketplace, and to my employer. I'm not satisfied unless it is, nor am I satisfied with my performance unless I'm doing my best to be of financial use to them. I do these things because I value fairness and because I understand the nature of business, not because I give a rat's @ss about money.
All that said, if you "can't live" on 20% less than you make now, you should give some serious thought to how you can fix that, before the marketplace does it to you. Spend some time separating your needs from your wants, and don't undervalue your services.
RE: More perks less pay ???
Good time to start a garden, and stacking fire wood, and leave the AC off.
RE: More perks less pay ???
Another manager's father-in-law was a VP for a major oil company and never worked more than 40 hrs/wk. His philosophy was if you can't get your work done in 40 hrs. and you're not goofing off, management needs to hire people. He did not understand our generation working themselves to death and missing so much of life.
RE: More perks less pay ???
Is continuing education, industry training, education tuition reimbursement assistance, etc pretty common among most employeers of engineers? If so, what metrics are placed on it? Like how many industry training classes are you eligible to attend? Or how much of your tuition gets reimbursed, per class, on average?
Our company has some level of tuition reimbursement, it's about 75% on college classes. We also have some access to industry trainging seminars and the like, but depending on your manager you may not get to go to any or you may get to go to as many as you want.
RE: More perks less pay ???
Industry training classes are paid for by the company, as long as they are approved by your manager, and he has a budget for it.
RE: More perks less pay ???
HR has a lifecycle for employees and they look for people who know how to manage employees across the decades of work. I think that's pretty silly, too. Some people shouldn't be trained beyond college because they won't do anything with it. Others should be trained until they retire because they will use it tremendously as long as they can. Some are lifelong learners and others are not.
RE: More perks less pay ???
Kind of like some places not hiring people much over 40, how silly is that from most respects.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?