Gutter System - Design Table?
Gutter System - Design Table?
(OP)
We have a project that repeats quite often but the values for the job are always changing but the basics remain the same.
It is a U shaped channel that varies in length. The channel also tapers in depth. We make them out of sheet metal and then the joints get welded up in the field.
Let say we have two jobs...
First job
Length of channel is 60' long
Tapers from 24" deep to 6" deep over the entire length.
Second job
Length of channel 40' long
Tapers from 20" deep to 10" deep over the entire length.
As we make these in pieces we want them to be equal in length but no longer then 118" long
So First job would have 7 parts @ 102.857 in length.
Second job would have 5 parts @ 96.000 in length.
Im unsure if solidworks can generate an assembly for me with my parts varying in length, taper, count.
Any help on this one would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
It is a U shaped channel that varies in length. The channel also tapers in depth. We make them out of sheet metal and then the joints get welded up in the field.
Let say we have two jobs...
First job
Length of channel is 60' long
Tapers from 24" deep to 6" deep over the entire length.
Second job
Length of channel 40' long
Tapers from 20" deep to 10" deep over the entire length.
As we make these in pieces we want them to be equal in length but no longer then 118" long
So First job would have 7 parts @ 102.857 in length.
Second job would have 5 parts @ 96.000 in length.
Im unsure if solidworks can generate an assembly for me with my parts varying in length, taper, count.
Any help on this one would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks






RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
Design Manager/Senior Designer
M9 Defense
My Blog
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
If that is correct, you could do it with a top down assembly model. and just have configs for each number of parts you need.
I would need to know a couple things though.
Maximum over all length
Maximum over all taper.
Maximum individual piece 118" ?
I will pack an go an example for you, once you upload that information
StrykerTECH Engineering Staff
Milwaukee, WI
http://www.stryker-tech.com/
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
The maximum taper will probably be more then .500 per linear foot.
The one i have to do right now is around .125 per linear foot.
The maximum individual piece will be 118" long.
We want to keep the pieces for each line to be the same length and as long as possible without going over 118". We can get in pre sheared material due to the quantity of material. It is generally around 8" wide and made out of 20Ga S/St.
Thanks again.
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
I just through this together so it is in no way ready to go, but it give you a good idea of what I think you are looking for.
You probably want to put an equation in depending on what variables you want to control. I am guessing your end result will be a DXF and a drawing. So you would have to snap shot that. But that shouldn't be a big deal
StrykerTECH Engineering Staff
Milwaukee, WI
http://www.stryker-tech.com/
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
Cole M
CSWP, CSWST, CSWI, CPDM
Certified DriveWorks AE
HP XW4300, 3.4g proc, 2.5g RAM, ATI Fire GL 3100
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RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP![[pc2] pc2](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/pc2.gif)
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum PoliciesBerry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
www.scottjbaugh.com
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
DriveWorksXpress will give you the drawings for each part, and although the drawings may require the scale to be modified and view positions moved at least it would give you a good start.
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
Driveworks does not really automatically do it for you. You have to have your templates setup in a way driveworks knows where to place the views and such. If you don't have your templates setup properly, then you will still have to manually setup drawings\Templates to utilize Driveworks.
If you use a DT - You can make a set up a set of Master Drawings that you can use every time you use the assembly. If your assembly is in-contexted, then you can change the assembly and the parts will update and so does the drawings and you have only to cosmetically clean up the drawings and print them off.
I setup a very large assembly (in-contexted) with a Design Table. The assembly was automated with the change of a few selections. Once the dimensions were accepted and the DT closed. The Assembly updated, clicked over to the drawing and the main assembly updated. Each part was sheet tab in the main assembly drawing and I just had to click through and clean up the dimensions. Most of the dimensions I had to clean up were only in the main assembly, the parts dimension locations rarly changed.
I think purchasing 3rd party software in this instance is kind of a waste, simply because this can be done inside of Solidworks for nothing.
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP![[pc2] pc2](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/pc2.gif)
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum PoliciesBerry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
www.scottjbaugh.com
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
And what do YOU mean DriveWorks does not really automatically do it for you. Ofcourse it does, I use it all the time. Yes, I set my drawing template up, but I did it once (like you will need to do for your design table) and now get all drawings required without risking forgetting to change the references.
I need traceability of my drawings that were issued for each job, and with DriveWorksXpress doing the save_as, change references for me saves me a lot of time on it's own. Coupled with the fact that it is automatically changing dimensions, features, patterns, custom properties and replacing components in all of my assemblies as well!!!
No 3rd party software was purchased, I use DriveWorksXpress which is included in SolidWorks.
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
Yes DriveWorksXpress has limitations compared to the other DriveWorks offerings but it is far more powerful then Design Tables and top down and it eliminates all the hassle of "File>Save As" that is required with using Design Tables and such for creating new data sets.
Design Tables/Top down=Hammer and hand saw for building
DriveWorksXpress=Air Nailer and Power Saw!
Cole M
CSWP, CSWST, CSWI, CPDM
Certified DriveWorks AE
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
Any new solution is always going to require setup of the certain things. Of course when you post the fact that "Driveworks does it for you" it's misleading, because that user expects it to just do it without them making any templates or setups. Yours does do it for you, because its already set up to. If you are going to post information like this in the future, be sure to point out the fact that you already have your system setup to do it automatically.
Of course using a Design Table also has to have a drawing already made, then its just a matter of updating the drawing after the DT and assembly is updated. The Master assembly\parts and Drawing is easily copied to a new filename\location and its just a matter of updating the DT, Close the DT, Save the assembly, click over to the Drawing and your done... I don't see how that is any harder than using Driveworks. I am using a userform to make this process far easier to understand.
Better yet Save the DT off as an excel sheet, remove the DT from the assembly. Open the Excel sheet and add the API codes that change the dimensions in the assembly, setup a Userform or textboxes in the worksheet and make an external spreadsheet change the dimensions in the assembly and then you don't have to worry about a DT all together.
Scott Baugh, CSWP![[pc2] pc2](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/pc2.gif)
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum PoliciesBerry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
www.scottjbaugh.com
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
That in comparison to the 2 days it took me to set it up in DriveWorksXpress and then all I had to do was enter the numbers and choose my handle style and click go and all my documents were generated. The added bonus of Xpress was it was very easy to give to another user as they didn't have to know anything but what they wanted to get the desired results. I could limit them to not go outside of our design limitations with two simple parameters.
Both of these systems did require some detail drawing "cleanup" but the 2 day to 8 day setup along with the approximately 2 hour new data set with all drawings cleaned up compared to on average half a day new data set using design tables was an easy sale on the DriveWorks decision...
I am having a very hard time seeing the benefit of the Design Table method having used both.
Best Regards
Cole M
CSWP, CSWST, CSWI, CPDM
Certified DriveWorks AE
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
I have a new job at my new job and I am using a Design Table. I have to keep the data protected and unfortunately, one limitation to Xpress is that you cannot protect your data. (I confirmed this with Ian at SW World last week). I spoke with them about this project I am working on, even though it is incredible basic, Xpress has far to many limitations to perform at the level I need it to and with all the users that are going to have to access this file, I can't afford to buy a seat for every user. The other problem with using an Xpress program means it may not always be a part of the software in future releases... There have been a few that get removed from the software, so until its part of SW itself, I would not put all my faith into it.
I have used Driveworks express in the past myself when I worked for a VAR, but I didn't see any great benefit in something I could do in Excel or add API codes and make an external program from an Excel Spreadsheet and a SW file.
I agree to disagree... Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP![[pc2] pc2](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/pc2.gif)
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum PoliciesBerry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
www.scottjbaugh.com
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
With regard to your comment about protecting your data, I seem to recall you told me you buried your master file deep on your network so no-one could find it. If that is the level of protection you require then you can bury your DriveWorksXpress data so you have a backup in case someone maliciously corrupts your rules.
True rule protection is reserved for the products you do have to pay for.
Yes your product wasn't suited for DriveWorksXpress, but that does not mean it is not suited for everyone. From what I have read of the example in question I think DriveWorksXpress will do a fine job, without countless hours being spent only to find the limitations of design tables (Just create a part with 20+ configs in and see how big it gets, for one) and I am more than willing to give btbulldog any assistance required.
Just let me know.
Thanks
Ian
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
On one hand you do not believe in 3rd party software, on the other you write your own custom code to achieve a basic level of automation. (So design tables\ In context does not get you all the way??)
The difference between the two is that one is fully supported by a reputable software company who has been involved with SolidWorks for 10 years. The other is by an engineer who could walk away from his job at any time and leave his previous employer with a headache.
Just a thought.
Ian
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
Here is the link: https://www.driveworkssolo.com/index.php/try-it
Deepak Gupta
SW 2010 SP4.0 & 2011 SP1.0
DriveWorks Pro 7 SP5
Boxer's SolidWorks™ Blog
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
Scott Baugh, CSWP![[pc2] pc2](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/pc2.gif)
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum PoliciesBerry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
GEASWUG Greater Evansville Area SWUG Leader
www.scottjbaugh.com
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
I did not see your typical "assemblies" so I do not know complexity of your "asemblies". It sounds your "assembly" is actually more of a part than an "assembly". If I were you, I would use a part for what you are trying to achieve.
You really do not need either DriveWorks or Design Table.
When you create your drawing documents, you should pay more attention to definitions of your products, rather than WIP (work in process) parts, i.e., you need to focus on design intents.
The comment below:
"As we make these in pieces we want them to be equal in length but no longer then 118" long"
seems to indicate that it is not an design intent of your products.
Best regards,
Alex
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
I still wasnt quite sure how to come up with what I wanted. I took an old flat pattern that i had in autocad and inserted and and added the bend lines.
I then made a design table with up to 12 different components on it. If i need more then i can modify the table to work but most of the time i think it will be around 4 to 9 different components.
I setup the design table on the part level and the assembly is more of a reference of the final assembly.
There are other parts that go to this assembly but this is the main hurdle i had.
Im sure i did some of the stuff the hard way but at least i got some results.
http
Thanks again!
RE: Gutter System - Design Table?
You can also control Supperession states. Here is your assembly with some an assembly DT.
Good luck,
Scott Baugh, CSWP![[pc2] pc2](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/pc2.gif)
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum PoliciesBerry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
GEASWUG Greater Evansville Area SWUG Leader
www.scottjbaugh.com