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# 2010 AISC Specification & Commentary(5)

 WillisV (Structural) (OP) 25 Jan 11 13:53
 ToadJones (Structural) 25 Jan 11 14:19
 OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!just got used to 2005!!!
 Bobber1 (Structural) 25 Jan 11 16:39
 I suppose 250 pages of errata are also available.
 JAE (Structural) 25 Jan 11 18:42
 Bobber1 - now now  - be nice.  (psst - I agree with you)
 JoshPlum (Structural) 26 Jan 11 11:17
 It's rarely the codes that have errata.  They are refined again and again over a long approval process.It's the design guides and manuals that usually tend to have the typos and mistakes and such.  :)
 engotengot (Industrial) 26 Jan 11 11:55
 so when is the 14th edition cumming?
 ToadJones (Structural) 26 Jan 11 13:08
 engotengot- Rather bizarre type-o
 (2)  WillisV (Structural) (OP) 26 Jan 11 13:08
 @engotengot - read my first link:  "It has been approved by the AISC Committee on Specifications and is ANSI-accredited and forms the basis for the 14th Edition Steel Construction Manual, which is scheduled to be published in the third quarter of 2011."
 a2mfk (Structural) 26 Jan 11 13:36
 Ok, I will ask the obvious stupid question.WHY?What major breakthroughs in steel design have necessitated another update? FWIW, I rather like the new code other than the Bible-like micro thin pages, I am a bit rough on books and everything else for that matter.I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I am starting become very skeptical of all of the constant changes and revisions to building codes, ASCE 7, etc. These only seem to make these documents more complicated and more un-user friendly, and make us more prone to making mistakes. I am all for advancing the state of the art and continuing education, and fine tuning our knowledge, and making structures safer. But does all this accomplish an increase in safety and economy at the end of the day?Sorry, not trying to start tirade. I am sure some will make some valid points as the validity of these seemingly constant changes. This is what they say on AISC.org:"The 2010 AISC Specification contains few major revisions and continues to address both LRFD and ASD methods of design," commented Cynthia Duncan, AISC director of engineering. "However, it includes new topics and updated design provisions important to the industry today such as structural integrity, new composite member provisions, revisions to slip-critical connection design provisions, as well as a new chapter on quality control and quality assurance."
 JAE (Structural) 26 Jan 11 17:39
Josh:

#### Quote:

It's rarely the codes that have errata
.  You are being sarcastic right?

 JoshPlum (Structural) 26 Jan 11 20:17
 JAE - I was being playful, but was speaking seriously. Most of those files in your link are errata with the manuals.... not with the specifications themselves.
 JAE (Structural) 26 Jan 11 22:19
 Yikes...Josh - sorry - my mind didn't differentiate the two...sorry.
 slickdeals (Structural) 27 Jan 11 8:52
 Won't the Manual and the specifications ever be separated? It seems like bulk of the activity really happen on the specifications side and some major changes do happen on the design tables.Would it be better that AISC adopts a loose leaf printing that will be easy on the end user, similar to AASHTO? You only swap out pages that changed rather than have to buy a brand new manual every few years.
 HgTX (Civil/Environmental) 9 Feb 11 20:46
 AASHTO does a whole new book every few years too.  It does the loose page updates every year between the whole new books.Hg Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
 SAIL3 (Structural) 10 Feb 11 9:54
 Here we go again.I have become really discouraged at the state of the recent AISC specifications.As "a2fmk" pointed out, they are becoming less useful and more cumbersome to use.Even the most simple engineering concept, by the time they are finished with it, has become hopelessly complicated, opaque andtime consuming to apply ,in order to save a few pounds of steel.It seems they have dumped everything out on the table, both the trivial and the important, and saying to the practising engineer you sort it out.All else being equal, it is more efficient for me now todesign using concrete rather than steel as long as I stay awayfrom the dreaded appendix "D".It would be a great service to the practising engineers if this forum could add a section consisting of a poll and any relative comments so that we could rate the various codes on clarity, usefullnes, continuity, ease-of-use,etc.This would provide an organized feedback to the various code committees. Right now, all we are left with is to complain amongst ourselves to no effective outcome or action.
 Gumpmaster (Structural) 10 Feb 11 10:36
 I have to disagree with a couple of you.The AISC code is my favorite of all the material specific codes.  It's fairly short, and the majority of the changes they made in the current revision are for simplification or to provide additional design options (the old options are still available).Also, what other code is totally free?  If you want a hard copy, just print it out.  The only thing you have to pay for is the design manual (which is hugely usefull, but you don't need it to design per the code).
 dhengr (Structural) 10 Feb 11 16:17
 JStephen (Mechanical) 11 Feb 11 8:50
 Some of the standards and codes I deal with are loose-leaf and updated year-by-year, some are re-issued in bound volumes every few years.  One of the drawbacks to the looseleaf approach is that once you incorporate all the 2011 pages into your code, you no longer have a copy of the 2010 code.  So for codes and standards where you are expected to use the latest edition, it's great.  If somebody expects you to use a specific edition from 10 years ago, it won't work.  And of course, the bound-volume and the loose-leaf groups can't agree with each other on how this should work, either.
 271828 (Structural) 11 Feb 11 9:24
 Seems to me that AISC is a minor offender when it comes to this kind of thing.At least they're sticking with a five year cycle, not three.The Spec., design guides, engineering journal, modern steel construction, and a mega-boatload of other technical information is available cheap (or free with membership) and readily downloadable.They also provide the Solutions Center which generally provides good and free technical support.  Not sure if that sort of service is available from ACI, ICC, or ASCE 7.  The times I've asked questions of those, I've received zilch.  Not even a reply.Seems to me that the 13th Ed. Spec. and Manual were pretty substantial overhauls of previous ones.  I can't think of what I'd call a major revision in ACI or NDS.  ASCE 7 changed a lot from 93 to 95 IIRC.  Some of those other guys are going every three years also.
 weab (Structural) 12 Feb 11 19:41
 dhengr is right on along with some others.  Universal acceptance of new codes is not mandatory.  The fact that whether you are on a 3 year or 5 year cycle, you have already decided that there will be a new specification in 30 and 60 years.  In my opinion, there just isn't enough material or design advancements to justify a new specification every few years.   I would suggest it is more likely that we are at the point where we should be tweaking the specs. Every 10 years or so would be more in line, but then again even that would guarantee a new spec in 30 and 60 years.It a good thing that steel has a longer cycle.  It takes more time to digest the changes.  Like 271828 says, AISC offers easy access to information.  It is clearly necessary.  Ever see the questions being asked in Modern Steel Construction after all this time?  If only the steel spec was as clear as ACI spec.Like dhengr says, like minded engineers should convince our local officials that older codes need not be abandoned just because the code writing machines cannot be turned off.  I agree that it's time to stop the madness.
 JAE (Structural) 13 Feb 11 22:45
 I'm not sure convincing local code officials to only adopt codes ever third edition or so would help.This is because in different cities/states/countries, whatever, the local folks will prescribe their choice of a particular issue of a code.  That will most likely be different than other locations who prescribe different editions of the code.So if I do business in more than one jurisdiction, which I'm sure most engineers do, then I still will have to buy copies of, and learn all about, all the different code editions.My city adopts the 2006 IBC.  The next city over adopts the 2009.  I have a project in the adjacent state and they are sticking with the 2003 IBC.  Some places take the IBC and re-write it to suit their needs. So even if my own city only adopts the code every third edition, I still have to know all the others.
 dhengr (Structural) 14 Feb 11 14:42
 Adopting every third edition of the new codes would be a significant improvement as far as most practicing engineers and local building officials are concerned.  And, I suspect we wouldn't have a lot more infrastructure falling down around us because of this.  Certainly, we will always be dealing with different codes or variations on them in different locations, we've always been doing that.  But wouldn't it be wonderful if the rate of change slowed down in as many locations as possible, to a rate where we could learn to use the new version proficiently before it became outdated, or before we got bit in the a by some obscure change that we hadn't really noticed.Isn't it true that your state essentially dictates the adoption of the new code, with some local modifications just to show their independence, and then the cities and counties are more or less obliged to live with this adoption, however well they enforce it?  If a few of the states you are registered and practicing in decided not to adopt the newest edition of the ICB and thus the latest refed. versions of AISC, ACI, etc., that wouldn't be a real big burden on you would it?  There aren't many people who use or have to deal with the codes these days who are happy wit h the rate of change, cost, lost production in relearning, and confusion, for so little improvement in the final product produced; and that includes everyone from engineers and local building inspectors to city, county and state building officials.The people who make their living producing this junk aren't going to slow down unless we say and do something, they've got a good thing going, at our expense and to our detriment.  Our state legislators and state building commissioner will likely adopt the newest editions, because it must be gooder, it's newer, what do they know, unless we educated them about the true facts of the matter.  And, then this slow down might catch on, and we could get back to doing real productive engineering, instead of spending so much time and money just trying to keep up with code changes and software changes.
 HgTX (Civil/Environmental) 23 Feb 11 21:46
 No one want a new code, unless you're someone who's annoyed with a particular provision of the code, and you know it's going to change, but it can't be changed for another five years, and then you're pissed off that the rate of change is so slow.I don't know about AISC, but I serve on some of the welding code committees, and everything that's changed in there is because someone found a problem--a case the code writers didn't think of 20 years ago, some unclear language that people keep misinterpreting, a new material that's introduced, whatever.  On a 5-year code cycle, with the door to new changes closed two years before the publication date to allow for multiple levels of balloting and then the whole proofing and publishing process, that means anywhere between 2 and 7 years to see something fixed.  And people bitch about that too.Hg Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
 SAIL3 (Structural) 24 Feb 11 10:55
 How did we get into this mess, anyway?I believe that the root cause lies in the mentality of the engineering community themselves as a whole(me included).We are who we are and every organization that makes a good livingpiggybacking on the work of an engineer knows this.So how did we end up this way?The following is a plausible explanation.Wheather you believe in creation(which I do) or the evolutionary theory, both hold a clue to our curious behavior.Creation: God blessed the engineer with this awesome gift of being able to bring to bear on a technical problem such logic, talent,insight, perseverance and quest for the truth. In His wisdom, He knows that if this gift was ever let loose in other areas of the profession or society as a whole, total chaos and mayhem would shortly follow.The glue that holds society together, this grey area, this social lubricant that enables man to live with fellow man rests on tolerance, halftruths, nuances, a wink and a nod and taken to it's extreme may be called diplomacy.Not so with the engineer with his relentess quest for truth anddistain for ambiguity.So God has limited the awesome talent to a very narrow area in society in order to achieve the greatest good for the most people(Pareto principle).So instead of whinning about the limits of our profession,let us be grateful that God has chosen us to render this great good toour fellow man.Result.....acceptance, peace, serenity.Evolution Theory: Ever since man discovered the first tool, there was an immediate advantage and payback to the inventor/engineer.This encouraged more of the same behavior. Through many cycles of this discovery/reward down through millenium, nature honed a very powerful and effective tool until you find in the 21st century a class of the human race that is devoted soley to the solving oftechnical problems.So far so good, until recently, when machines began to replace man and his function in society. Make no mistake about it, this model holds some dark and cruel truths as many species became extinct when they were of no more use to nature or lacked the ability to change and adjust.So will the computers eventually replace engineers?.As we sense the computer relentlessly closing the gap, those of us who have any experience or expertise in engineering wave these attributes wildly about in the air , looking for some recognition and sense of value and a seat at the table when the dust settles and all of this plays out.Next time you excitedly bring home a brand new computer fromComputersR'Us with more ram, faster , bigger hd etc.,you may well be,unwittingly, bringing home the seeds of your own demise as an engineer.Result.....looming change, uncertianty, vulnerability, anxiety, worry, doom and gloom.The first thing I am going to do when I get off this forum is unplug the computer and ponder long and hard on what I have just stumbled upon.Now, where the heck did I put that sliderule!!

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