Retraining to be an Electrician
Retraining to be an Electrician
(OP)
Hi everyone,
I'm looking for some advice about moving away from a career in engineering and to a profession with more demand for new workers.
I graduated with a master's degree in electrical engineering last year and have been unable to find an electrical engineering job after nearly six months of searching. I've applied for jobs all over the U.S. with small companies, large companies, and the government. Most of the open jobs I've found either require or strongly prefer several years of experience. There just doesn't seem to be much out there for newly minted engineers, and with unemployment the way it is, I think there are too many experienced engineers looking for a job for me to have a shot.
With my engineering career prospects so bleak, I'm considering going back to school to become an electrician. Job openings for electricians seem to be abundant, and I think becoming an electrician should be a quick and easy transition with my background in electrical engineering. I know I won't make as much money as an electrician, but it's better than spending the next year unsuccessfully looking for an engineering job while waiting tables.
Has anyone else here transitioned away from engineering to a new career? If so, were you happy with your decision? Did the transition go as well as you hoped?
Thanks!
I'm looking for some advice about moving away from a career in engineering and to a profession with more demand for new workers.
I graduated with a master's degree in electrical engineering last year and have been unable to find an electrical engineering job after nearly six months of searching. I've applied for jobs all over the U.S. with small companies, large companies, and the government. Most of the open jobs I've found either require or strongly prefer several years of experience. There just doesn't seem to be much out there for newly minted engineers, and with unemployment the way it is, I think there are too many experienced engineers looking for a job for me to have a shot.
With my engineering career prospects so bleak, I'm considering going back to school to become an electrician. Job openings for electricians seem to be abundant, and I think becoming an electrician should be a quick and easy transition with my background in electrical engineering. I know I won't make as much money as an electrician, but it's better than spending the next year unsuccessfully looking for an engineering job while waiting tables.
Has anyone else here transitioned away from engineering to a new career? If so, were you happy with your decision? Did the transition go as well as you hoped?
Thanks!





RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Once the job market picks up, you will have a degree and electrician experience. I see nothing wrong with it.
I moved from engineering to IT at a major company. I hated it, but learned a lot in the computer side of engineering.
I am now back into engineering, and I have done some IT work here.
Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
One thing I loved about all those jobs is that they don't come home in your belly.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Respectfully disagree. Perhaps trending negative in a lot of industries at the moment, and certainly not the glamour days of the past, but 'engineering' is trained problem solving and the need for that will never go away. I don't think it is a profession that will make one a Zillionaire, but will provide a means to a comfortable living.
Seems a terrible waste of money, time, and effort to throw away an MSEE. If you are utterly convinced that no job exists for you at the moment (shocking...are you sure you're not setting your expectations too high?), then what better time to pursue this electrician thing if you have the means to do so? Would be excellent choice. Do it forever? Probably not...at some point down the road you may not have the desire to go out and work 16 hours on site in the cold / wet / noisy / hot / dirty / smoky / dusty / dangerous work environment that being a Journeyman/Master Electrician requires.
I was given advice once to always have a skill available that would allow you to put food on the table no matter what the economic situation was. At one point I considered enrolling in a Millwright Apprentice program or studying Diesel Mechanics. I wound up acquiring drafting/designer/CAD skills and robot/PLC programmer skills. ALWAYS have been able to find work in slack times. Get rich doing it? No, but is a temporary situation and always pays enough to pay the rent etc. with no problems.
TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
TygerDawg,
I agree, a star.
Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
The day I got my present job (drafting) I turned down work as a census crew trainer and an interview w/ a sheetmetal workers local- short term drafting looked better, long term, they quoted $30/hr as journeyman after 5 years of school, 2nites /week. I had applied for plumber's apprentice as well, ever see what they get for 20 minutes w/ a snake and not biting their nails?
I worked for a friend, electrician a couple times. Good, mentally engaging work (but new stuff always is for me)holes in ceilings, walls, studs & joists, be prepared to work with dirt, dust, nastiness. Chasing wires, romex, conduit, stuffing boxes. A week of it made my back better, go figure. Carpenter jokes funny as hell but unrepeatable here. Some long days, but generally a schedule that would turn many engineers green.
I met a few electricians in solar panel class, I liked them. Go for it.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Companies in the electrical testing field often hire new engineers out of school. The scope of work is very much "hands-on" although not quite the same as that of construction electrician.
In the testing business, you delve much deeper into the more technical aspects of electrical power application.
Most of the companies who hire engineers have some path towards advancement, and even if not, you'll be in the middle of a lot of facilities who may be prospective employers.
Over the years I worked in that business, I saw a lot of young engineers come and go, and many of them are working for our former clients as staff engineers.
Jumping off point in the USA to find those companies is the NETA website.
old field guy
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
About 15 - 20 years ago - I was making about 45k as an engineer - not bad back then.
Decided to a take a PLC course (way out of my area of structural engineering) at the local community college. Great class.
Met an electrcian that was making about the same as me but with OT, etc, etc he made way more than double what I was making. Of course he was union at the local Chrysler plant - which they are now tearing down. But you get my point.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Electrician
http://www.bls.gov/oco/pdf/ocos206.pdf
Electrical Engineer
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#earnings
After reading this it seems you may be doing your EE degrees an injustice. Back in 2008, for electricians, medium made about $63K. For EE's in 2008, medium made $82K. By these numbers, it seems staying on the EE track and finding ways to make yourself marketable thru networking, EIT, IEEE...etc. You have to remember that all Senior Engineers started where you are now. Preparation will cross opportunity sooner or later and you will find that first engineering job.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Of course in NYC, there's an excess of electricians; it's been that way for 20 years. The only get about 6 to 8 months of work per year.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
PLC's are always a hot commodity. I remember when I worked as an intern in facilities-- some of the purchase orders I had to cut.
We brought in a PLC guy to do some work $200 an hour + expenses.. you don't get a repair job every week but when you do they are nice. Same goes for servo motors and controls.. we had a dinosaur russian vertical turret lathe- servo drive went out and there was a $60,000 bill to repair.. I think in that particular case Siemens did the work but if you can find out what manufacturing companies have on their floor- and you know how to fix it- I would send to the local guy first every time.
You can get in on federal contracting also if you start your own company- that could be 4-5 years down the line and a pretty good option IMO.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
It's been a true "emperor has no clothes" wake-up call for me. I felt really good about what I was doing throughout college. Even with the job market the way it is, I had no doubt I would be employable when I graduated. It turns out I was just a big schmuck all along. Engineering degrees are the new liberal arts degrees.
My fancy diploma doesn't mean a thing. I hear nothing back from 95% of the jobs I apply for. Most of the time when I do hear back it's in the form of a rejection message. I've managed to get one interview months ago, and they never even bothered to let me now what their decision was. The only interest in me is from insurance companies that want me to sell their products on commission.
I know part of it is my fault. I didn't even try to get into an Ivy League school, or at least a well-respected engineering school. I didn't think there would be enough substantive difference in the quality of the education to justify the higher tuition. I'm still not sure if the quality of the education is really better, but I don't hear about many unemployed MIT graduates.
Anyone here want to buy some insurance?
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Most employers, except for the ones with deep pockets are like that, but, did you ever stop to think that maybe it's you?
About 20 years ago I hired a trainee ( contract requirement for a DOT project); the man I hired was an ex-con. At the time I didn't know he did seven years for drug dealing (one good year of dealing was worth more than five times what I was making). If I had known it wouldn't have mattered. I liked his attitude and his personality.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Sorry LaplacianPyramid, welcome to the real world. You sound like you're from the "entitled generation". In this economy everybody is struggling and yet you feel just because you graduated you are entitled to respect and a job. If you are coming across like this with your personality, resume and interview, you will not be taken seriously. My company looks for enthusiastic people not people who think just because they have the degree demand to have the respect and a job. If you do not have the passion for engineering, switch fields all together. Let me give you hint. Even when you do get hired, nobody in the company will manage your career. Just because your part of the company, it does not mean you're entitled to raises and promotions. You still have to prove yourself. You think getting the job is the hard part, it is not. Keeping the job and managing your career will even be tougher.
Your entitlement will show thru and will get you into trouble. Respect is earned, not given. To get respect is to be born out or fire, not spoon fed.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
It seems you are new to this board. Please reframe from making remarks like this. Most of everybody on this board has that "fancy degree". There is no need to come on to this board of working Engineers and insult the people who worked hard to get that degree and made something out of it. I worked hard to get mine and I have never thought of it as a waste of time.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I agree.
It doesn't mean a thing to those that are not seriously looking for work.
Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
1. I dropped back to my flight instructor avocation. Enjoyed it but didn't make living wages.
2. With a foundation in Toastmasters, I got a job on a tech magazine, which I enjoyed until the magazine was sold.
A concurrent avocation was landscape design. It was seasonal during warm weather. Did that on and of for many years. My son picked up on it, and he does high ticket jobs as opportunity allows.
Don't drop engineering. Use your analytical and space visualization skills in other areas.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I did a search on Indeed.com for "MSEE" and got 4,000+ responses. There're plenty of jobs out there. Where do you want to go, what do you want to do? What are you WILLING to do in order to get employed? THAT's the question because the ugly truth is no one owes you a living, no matter what your qualifications are. In this economy, the Candidate-BS-tolerance threshold is probably extremely low.
Some possible issues to consider and ask yourself honestly:
(1) "hear nothing back from 95%..." How do you contact employers? Via job boards and internet, flipping 'em an electronic resume? If so, then change your game. THAT strategy has been discussed much here (do some searches, there are great stories), and it is problematic. IMHO it's a terrible method with a high failure rate.
(2) Had any face-to-face interviews? And still been rejected? If so, then why? I mean, really why? It's all about selling yourself.
(3) Sitting around, sending out e-resumes waiting for the world to beat a path to your door because you got a Master's degree? Wrong strategy...a Master's degree is a liability in a lot of situations. The Master's pay is assumed to be higher, the available jobs for them are fewer, and you must hustle a lot harder to find them. Get out and circulate, volunteer, go throw boxes at the local FedEx hub at 400AM, attend engineering society meetings, network. It may help you realize that the employment game is all about hustling for what you want.
You think you're frustrated NOW...huh. Wait until you get out and start dealing with Master's-discrimination, corporate lunacy, and backstabbing co-workers who feel threatened by the new self-righteous, chip-on-shoulder College Boy.
TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
That's a pretty sad attitude. There are tons of engineering grads doing quite well, even those from polytechnic state universities.
If this is the attitude with which you are approaching your job search, then it's not surprising that you're foundering. If you're going into an endeavor thinking you're going to fail, then life is not going to let you down.
TTFN
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RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I can make excuses all day long as to why some particular thing hasn't gone my way, or why I cant make as much $ as someone else. MIT is not good and you probably wouldn't have got in there anyway - really even if we all had the $40k/year to go there- how many people on this board believe they would have got in and that it would have given them a legitimate leg up.
There are no more tests, no more books, no more homework, no more dry lectures that you felt you should get $100 for being the only one not to fall asleep, as another poster put it- you hit the real world, there is no back of the book to check for a "right answer" no free academic advisor... there is life- and either you make it or you don't. People tell you no, well go on to to the next guy or better yet- his competitor and make them sorry he didn't hire you.
Maybe thats the wrong approach, maybe not, but you cant be a pushover or a whiner- I know that much.
Life can go one of two ways, you can let your tribulations bring you down, or you can look at them and say "wow- this situation sucks, what can I do to get myself out of it and learn from this" you will find that those that have done well in life will tell you that they have probably never had it easy, I know a lot of farmers for sure that have had years of outright grief before they started to do well- but when they did they knew how to conserve and leverage themselves to prevent the situation from happening again.
It may very well get worse for you before it gets better but you can always take a little comfort in knowing you're not the only one.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
"Most employers, except for the ones with deep pockets are like that, but, did you ever stop to think that maybe it's you?"
Sure, I've thought that many times. I'm definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed. That's my greatest downfall. The odds are there will always be someone who can do a job better and faster than I can. This is probably one reason why I can't find a job. I certainly don't fault employers for picking the smartest candidate. I would do the same thing in their shoes. Still, I would appreciate some response to indicate that they at least looked at my resume.
"You sound like you're from the 'entitled generation.'"
I can't help it what generation I'm from, but I certainly don't feel very entitled. I don't feel like anyone owes me a job. I think the job market is like any other market. I have a service to offer, and no employer is under any obligation to accept my services.
"Respect is earned, not given. To get respect is to be born out or fire, not spoon fed."
I don't ask for any respect. I know I haven't done anything to justify respect. All I did was spend a few years going to school and solving toy problems to make good grades on tests. While I enjoyed learning and felt like I was doing something worthwhile, I know I haven't done anything useful. I guess I've been overeager to get a job because I want to use my education to do something useful so badly.
"Please reframe from making remarks like this. Most of everybody on this board has that 'fancy degree.'"
Again, I'm sorry. I didn't mean any offense. I was only speaking for myself. I have a bit of a self-deprecating sense of humor and never take myself too seriously.
However, I do feel that science & engineering professions are not what they used to be. Gone are the glory days of the Space Race. Kids today are more interested in what Lady GaGa will be wearing at her next concert than the work astronauts do.
I also think that after laying off so many employees, companies have learned they really didn't need all those employees in the first place. The world hasn't fallen apart now that so many engineers are idle. Companies have adapted to do more with less, and so there is an oversupply of engineers. I don't fault the companies for this. They are in business to make money, not to pay engineers.
"I did a search on Indeed.com for "MSEE" and got 4,000+ responses."
While jobs appear plentiful on the surface, it seems most employers are looking for several years of experience. On top of that, my background will only be a good match for a fraction of those jobs. Given those factors, I might be qualified to apply for 10% of those 4,000+ jobs. I've already applied for nearly all of those jobs.
"Had any face-to-face interviews? And still been rejected? If so, then why? I mean, really why? It's all about selling yourself."
I've only had one so far a couple months ago at a contract manufacturer. They didn't contact me after the interview. I did contact them after a week, but they would only say they were still trying to choose a candidate. After a while longer I sent them a letter thanking them for the interview and asking why they apparently decided against me. I just wanted to know for future reference, but I again never got a response. I've been told that employers don't like to give specific reasons for rejecting an interviewee for legal reasons.
I always try to sell myself well. I always talk about engineering topics I feel especially passionate about. I dress professionally and semi-provocatively but avoid anything too revealing or skanky. I make sure to tell about my love for animals and volunteer work for PETA and the ASPCA so that the interviewer can get to know me a little personally.
"Sitting around, sending out e-resumes waiting for the world to beat a path to your door because you got a Master's degree?"
Believe me, I'm not just sitting around. I've done it all. I've gone to all the job fairs in my area and flown to a couple far away fairs. I've handed out resumes to the companies that would take them. Unfortunately, many representatives at job fairs don't seem to actually play any role in hiring. They are just there to talk about the company and refer you to the corporate website to submit a resume. I feel like I've wasted a lot of time at these fairs.
I've called employers on the phone to see if they are hiring. The answer is usually no or that I should apply online. I've dropped by many employers in person, but the answer is the same as calling.
"That's a pretty sad attitude. There are tons of engineering grads doing quite well, even those from polytechnic state universities."
That may have been true several years ago. With the job market the way it is now, companies can and are being choosy. With so many unemployed engineers looking for work, employers have many Ivy League graduates and accomplished engineers to choose from at a bargain price. Naturally they will pick them over someone from a small, obscure college not known for engineering.
I guess I'm just a little disillusioned. For now I have a job waiting tables at my fiance's restaurant, but I will need a real job after we're married. His restaurant barely keeps us afloat as it is. I guess that pressure is the cause of some of my frustration.
Thanks for all your advice. It's been really helpful, especially to know I'm not alone. I've decided to continue my job search for a while longer and to take classes at a local tech to try to get an electrician's apprenticeship.
Thanks again! :)
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
The statistics belie everything you think is going on. The worst reported engineering jobless rate is only about 20%. That means that 80% of the engineers still interested in a job, have one, TODAY, not 20 years ago. Given that there are something on the order of 80,000 engineering graduates annually in the US, that means roughly 64,000 of them are employed, and they all can't all be graduating from MIT and Caltech, since there's fewer than about 4,000 MIT grads and 250 Caltech grads annually, and not all of them are even engineers.
"However, I do feel that science & engineering professions are not what they used to be. Gone are the glory days of the Space Race. Kids today are more interested in what Lady GaGa will be wearing at her next concert than the work astronauts do."
Puleez, get real. IF that were even remotely true, companies would be begging for engineers, and they're clearly not. The reality is that while you're sitting moaning and whining, THEY are out there beating on doors and grabbing the jobs that you claim you want.
TTFN
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RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
- 2 sad lads - "pyramid" and "1337"
- $$$ Fruitful engineers $$$ - "everyone else"
This is a natural appetite I see in almost everyone I meet. "If it's no good for me then it surely is garbage for everyone..."
Fe
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
That's the wrong attitude for someone with your credentials. MS degrees in engineering aren't handed out to mental midgets.
If that's the message you're giving a prospective employer, no wonder why you don't hear back.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
It seems to me that your response rate (1 in person out of 400) is low- I sent out around 100 and managed 9 in person interviews.
Now, I need to work on my interviewing skills and etiquette but for a new college grad applying for jobs that want more experience than I have, 9% is pretty good.
One approach you can try is to be very specific each day on the job you apply for, write a very convincing cover letter explaining how your past coursework would contribute to the subject matter. make sure you are applying for jobs you have a strong desire to work in- it may "look" like your just sending out a shotgun blast with a vague resume.
Also, don't apply for any jobs older than 3 days. Have a search patten and keep it consistent and if you cant find anything for that one day in 10 minutes, go do something else with your day.
I have also found a little more success from smaller companies with a very direct CV/resume, State agency sites (if your state mandates it) are probably a good place to start... don't discount CL either, I know a few attorneys and myself included (engineer) that browse that site so it's not just good for hookers and blow.
I may be sounding like a broken record but like I said- that was the approach I took and I think I did OK minus my interviewing skills which I am working on- You will get better each interview.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
HVACJACK et al have offered sound advice on strategies, including your resume. By the way, did you put your resume together by yourself? If after sending 200 resumes out, I only get 1 letter (and a rejection at that), then I'd have to change gears, because something is obviously wrong with the approach.
Don't get sad or mad, just read this thread again; digest the numerous nuggets and charge forward with renewed energy.
Good luck.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
If you don't mind curry and insane traffic, I could refer you to some international connections ;)
"I've decided to continue my job search for a while longer and to take classes at a local tech to try to get an electrician's apprenticeship."
Check w/ your IBEW local. At least around buffalo, you need 3500 documented hours of electrical construction to get an apprenticeship. Other locals have fewer barriers to entry. I got enough to cover daycare and a bit more as a helper, but the main benefit was that it beat back the stir crazy.
Unless you can pitch being a dislocated worker, you'll have a hard time getting job training paid for.
Speaking as one who has detoured out of college (6 years tech support phone monkey), you can reenter the field. Passed the FE 12 years post grad, so the necessary brain cells can't have been too badly damaged.
Buffalo has a local job center in addition to the dept of labor, your college should have a career office as well, look something up and go there. The unposted job market is about 4 times larger that the job market in the want ads. The general social engineering, posturing and butt sniffing that ends up getting you a job can be overdone, but when there are typically 5 people for every job opening, it shouldn't be underdone. Study and practice it.
Finally, not to be a cad, but you spent 6 years in school, did you schmooze, intern or otherwise cultivate anything past may 2010?
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Me...
One thing that a good school degree does get you is some tiny amount of leeway and authority amongst peers. However, in general, the output from a CSUF grad is just as accepted as that of a Caltech grad, particularly since they're heavily outnumbered...
TTFN
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RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Sorry, a bit off topic from the OP:
"how many people on this board believe they would have got in and that it would have given them a legitimate leg up."
Get in? I did. Didn't go though. I did go to a school ranked higher in my field, although not as nearly as well regarded in general.
The school I chose certainly gave me a leg up, and if I had chosen MIT I'm sure that would have been as helpful or more helpful in my career. Top school are top schools for a reason. It's not so much the material covered, but the people you learn from and the quality of your cohorts.
Of course it's quite field dependent, and the quality of your education depends more on you than it does the school you attend, but all other things being equal, it's clear that some schools offer more opportunities.
Laplacian
I wouldn't move out of engineering yet, as long as it's something you still enjoy. I'd rather make decent money doing something that engages me than slightly better money doing something that bores me. And I don't think you can judge whether you'll really enjoy engineering until you've actually worked for a few years. That said, any electrican qualifications you work on now would certainly not harm your ability to get an engineering job and could easily help.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
1.) MOVE - the work ain't where you want it to be then you'll have to be where the work is.
2.) Adjust you attitude you may need professional help.
This site use to be called Roadwhore. meaning it was for people who would go anywhere do anything for money. It's more fun than setting around the house feeling sorry for your self.
h
Check the actural employement situation for electricans. There is lots of guys setting on the bench right now.
I know some that haven't worked in two years. When time are good they can go "Booming" and work the good jobs with lots of over time. When things are slow they sit on the bench and take what comes along. Check out the wages in various locals. The good wages and good bennies are with IBEW locals. IF you want to wire houses (running roap). down south in open shop you be just a few bucks of what you can make at wall mart.
Most locals are looking for apprentices. The long term outlook is for a big demand for electricans.
Before you jump over the fence make sure the grass really is greener. Even if it is, don't take your attitude with your.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Electrical engineers with field experience are in demand.
old field guy
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I wouldn't take too seriously the comments about your attitude... I think those people have read too much into your choice of words.
I would second the sentiment expressed by others that if you decide to go into the electrician trade or similar technical work typically performed by non-degreed-engineers, don't view it as a change of career but a stepping stone. The experience can certainly be very valuable toward future engineering jobs in related areas.
=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
There is a protocol and an etiquette that goes with the interview process. There are a number of ways to followup either in writing or phone call. But the gist of your followup should be: "I am really looking forward to this opportunity because of X, Y, and Z..." rather than "I'm conclusing you didn't pick me because I haven't heard anything so please tell me why not".
I'm not trying to be negative but to drive home a point that you may or may not already be familiar with: There are butt-loads of books an articles on every facet of how to conduct a job search including the interviews and the followups. If you haven't spent some serious time studying this during your 6 months, it's time to do so now.
=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
As an employer I did not want to hire somebody who wanted a job.
I wanted somebody who could solve a problem for me, or show me a better way to do things.
Or as now, with a tight economy, show me a way to get work in the door.
If you can do any of those things, employers will be jumping to hire you, if you cannot, you are just one more in the pack.
B.E.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
rmw
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
If you want to get something that makes you more valuable to put on your resume, then get a job that will teach you PLC programming. There are 4 seats down the hall from me that will be filled with MSEE's with PLC programing experience, and that's because 4 people found more money elsewhere and its been taking a while to fill those desks. Honestly, we'd probably train you if you had the right attitude.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
You don't want to bring up anything that would be considered "controversial" in your job interview. I think bringing up your passion for PITA would be almost as bad as telling the interviewer you have been saved and want to know if he/she has accepted Jesus into their life.
As much as I respect that you spend time volunteering for PETA, it is such a hot button that a conservative engineering manager might write you off as a kook.
Smile, pay attention to questions and answer them as asked, Be engaging and get the interviewer talking about what they do. Have some anectdotes about your life that don't involve engineering and some that do involve engineering. like 10 stories that could be plugged into 100 different possible questions. But keep things you are passionate about to yourself even if they bring it up.
In fact I'd make sure you don't include PITA on your resume
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I'm not the best at this, but the thank you letter should be written and in the mail before you take off your interview suit.
Some variation on:
Dear <person I talked to, you got their business card, right?>
Thank you for the time you took to discuss <the position> at <the place> with me on <the date>. I enjoyed the discussion and would love to be part of your team.
Please do not hesitate to contact me with any questions, or to arrange a second interview [ask for it!].
Sincerely
<you>
If you got along great or there was some other noteable (and positive) point in the interview, mention it very briefly so they make the association, but be careful and professional, avoid 'GO RAMS' or 'Hello Kitty 4eva', you want to be remembered for aceing the matlab quiz they dropped on you.
I used to send 'why didn't you hire me/feedback letters'. I doubt you'll ever get a reply, especially in writing- too easy to get sued that way.
One temp agency I worked with asked me to send a follow up after an interview, the other yelled at me for doing the same. Find out the protocol in advance.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Waiting tables- you say it keeps you on your toes, you enjoy dealing with people and it teaches you to keep track of and balance a busy workload.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Take what advice you can from the drubbing you've received here and move on. It surprises me a bit, the extent to which people here have kicked you when you were down. Some have done so in a sincere but not very empathetic attempt to be of help- to shake you up a bit, since the status quo doesn't seem to be working for you. But some have done it because they don't like to hear that their profession isn't in as much demand as they'd like to believe. I hope you can distinguish between them. By the way, I didn't note a sense of entitlement in what you posted- merely disappointment that the hype about an engineering education didn't pan out.
I don't know what it's like in your jurisdiction because I don't have the stats there, but here in Canada the steady state is 2/3 of people with engineering educations work outside the profession at any given time. Those 2/3 aren't all unemployed, nor are they all outside the profession because that was their plan from 2nd year on. Whether or not you become one of them depends on you- your skills and aptitudes and interests and how aggressive and motivated you are- but also on timing and location and on some circumstances beyond your control. One thing is sure, though- if your first job after school isn't an engineering job or in a related field (i.e. as an electrician's apprentice in your case), the likelihood that you will end up with a career in engineering diminishes dramatically.
Best of luck to you. Just be aware that as some here have pointed out to you, doing the same thing and expecting different results is either stupidity or madness. You do need to shake things up a bit, and training as an electrician might be just what you need.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I have had 3-4 engineering jobs in last 3 years, its a rough economy. Finding jobs are hard and I see for myself how hard it can be. Most companies have their pick on candidates.
All of my jobs have been through contract agencies, no one hires direct.
I would go that route thru a contract agency.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
It's not the fact that he or she is down, but they are there because of their own doing ( or lack of doing).
"Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats." ~Voltaire
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I'd rather champion for Engineering to beat the nay sayers than to blame Engineering for my failures. For the past ten years I have been on this board, I have been seeing a growing negative trend on people blaming the profession than their own initiative. From not getting a job to my career is not growing. Has anybody notice that your Engineering background is the same as everybody else's? Like in any field (yes doctors and lawyers too so don't give me that) it is how you learn, plan, and then execute your soft skills (other than Engineering) that will separate you from the others. There are whole seminars and books on this topic, but for some reason many dismiss them as non-essential and then have the audacity to blame the Engineering profession for their poor efforts to secure the job or promotion.
Some of these skills are branding, presentation, and persuasion. Branding yourself is how you tell others what you are good at and what you can do. In other words you are the Subject Matter Expert or go to person. Presentation is how you show or carry yourself at interviews / meetings and how you clearly disseminate your ideas. And, lastly and most importantly "persuasion", part of this is knowing what kind of person you're dealing with (i.e. introvert, extravert, or thinker, bottom line respectively) and what are their concerns that you can find solutions or prove that you can shoulder the responsibility. Some people think just because they have the same degree / years of experience as others that they have the power to materialize a job or promotion. This is not the case. You will have to persuade hiring manger / management that you deserve that job / promotion. You will have to build a case to "their" particular needs not what "you" think you deserve.
Did you ever think if you did not get the job or promotion that somebody else did with the same engineering background as you have, but they had a "better" case than you did. In other words, Engineers are getting hired or promoted, it's just wasn't you. So please, don't blame the profession, degree, or company, you are responsible for your life and career. Don't depend on others to charter it.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity"
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity"
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity"
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Is that "blaming the profession"? Not really: it's blaming the universities (and here the governments who run and largely fund them) for cranking out far more grads than the economy could possibly use.
Engineering is and will continue to be a great career option for many, but to say that it's a great career option for all who choose it flies in the face of fact. For 2/3 of those who graduate here, it isn't so for whatever reason. Not all of them are unemployed or at all unhappy about their choices, mind you- engineering IS a good preparatory education for many other endeavours.
Here in Ontario, the fact is that the average eng grad is actually about 20% MORE likely to be unemployed 2 yrs after graduation than the average graduate of all university programs combined. I can tell you from speaking with numerous fresh grads seeking that critical 1st job over the years that a good fraction of that 2/3 aren't there by choice, but as a result of being unable to land an entry-level position in the profession in a reasonable period after they graduate. If the universities were shouting that from the rooftops and from the front of those 1st year classrooms so the students could make an informed choice before they're too far in, perhaps it would be OK to be as hard on Laplacian as some have been.
Properly informed people make better decisions. Don't believe the hype- get the stats, as they tell you the real story.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Don't get discouraged ,you just have to keep trying.
Possibly you should try to "customize" your CV (or resume as you call it in the USA ) according to the job you are applying to.
If you feel like getting electrician training, you may do so.Some additional knowledge will only get you improved.
Anyway, be yourself and keep doing things your way, this will compensate you at the end, even if in some delay.
Think positive and ignore discouraging replies given by engineering "rambos" - be sure that they doubtfully ever
would do better than you ( it surely is very easy for some people to play "judge dredd" )....
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
People who are that fickle are unlikely to be good engineers...
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RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Give it a rest, like my mom would say if you dont have anything good to say then shut up.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
His first words here were,
"I'm looking for some advice about moving away...."
Dumb place to look for advice and if you do you should know what to expect.
The guy should join the army, they can fix attitudes and give you a new perspecitve, and they can train electricans.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I'm biting my tongue on this one, but this may because you have to "figure it out yourself" like a good engineer would? Most real world engineering problems are not textbook cases. However, this is about careers. In any career, there is nobody to hold your hand (unless you have helicopter parents which are not good at all). There is no person who will spoon feed you what you need to know. In this economy it is to be born out of fire. Go out and (dare I say) think outside the box on ways to improve your professional demeanor. In the real world, one will not have jerk professor office hours to go to later.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity"
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity"
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I wouldn't be surprised if you're not reading this thread anymore. I seems that what you said (or maybe, more precisely, how you said it) hit a nerve with a bunch of people here.
I don't think you can judge someone's personality very well on a message board, so I think many people are going way too far in condemning your "attitude".
That being said, it can also be hard to judge someone's personality in an *interview*, so you need to be careful how you present yourself. And if it went wrong a bit here, maybe similar things are happening when you interact with potential employers.
If you *do* want to be an engineer, it's a matter of selling yourself better. Try practing interviews with friends. Join a local engineering society. Volunteer with a group like Engineers Without Borders. And, yes, training as an electrian could help to. And *definitely* do not talk about PETA during an interview. If the interviewer has something against them, he now has something against you. Heck, I love animals, but if you bring up PETA 5 minutes into an interview I might think you're a bit nuts. Keep everything in the interview religiously, politcally, and culturally neutral.
All I have to judge you is your posts, but you don't seem like a bad person. You're articulate, you must to be halfway bright to have gotten the MSEE & you can make fun or yourself. You're frustrated. We all know how that feels, but you have to be careful not to let that show to potential employers.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Perhaps some of his doom and gloom was unwarented and amounts to projecting his poor situation on the profession as a whole, but have a heart guys. It's no fun to be in the situation he's in at all.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Laplacian, IMHO todays employers want payback real fast, probably mostly because of their own financial struggles in this current dire economy. After the initial training wheels and the push in the back, they want you peddling on your own as soon as possible.
My point? Only apply for those jobs for which you are specifically suited. For instance jobs, that have a lot of overlap with your thesis paper, or for those that you are specifically passionate about. IMHO shotgun applying is not effective.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
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RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I see it day by day that the so called 'low wage' countries(one in particular..) are munching away at what used to 'ours' and I don't see that coming to a halt soon. There attitude is so much different, It also seems there business attitude is on the fast lane.
Now with that said, is engineering becomming less relevant in the west? Answer seems self explaining when one looks at these facts(common sense helps here).
So, I actualy agree with a lot of his statements regarding the reasons why, and subsequently don't see him as the evil one from hell, for ranting against the 'holy and mighty' engineering trade.
Although I agree that his attitude needs some redirecting, pressure still makes diamonds.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
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RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
They started in the 60's with shoping cart's that would get blown off the roads by the mear wind drag of passing Chevrolets.
A mere 60 years later they fence for the crown in your own country, and then one questions their achievements?
I do agree they got somewhat tempered by their own success, but now we have China that wants to play that same game. Japan kicked some serious butt, their motivation and commitment brought them huge success on 'our' markets, and good for them. I can only admire such determination.
To downplay such effects is not wise IMHO and prevents one from seeing the (even)bigger picture correctly.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
1) You might make money but you will hate yourself after awhile if you truly don't enjoy the field work. 90deg hot days, roof climbs, etc.
2) If you train as an apprentice they will pay you less and still take advantage of your knowledge. In other words you will be doing the work of the EE and electrician for apprentice wages.
3) If you feel really desperate try sales for motors, VFD's, Pumps, etc...If you can size motors that is a skill that pays for itself.....
4) Learn Labview!
I would advise you to approach contractors, architects, EE PE's directly to preform outsource work part time and the other time find custom design work, fab/lab, prototyping etc. where you can charge more. These unsure times call for unusual solutions.
Side note....Silicon Valley still seems to be hot for EE's
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
She mentions that she is waiting tables in her Fiance's restaurant and that HIS restaurant is barely keeping them afloat.
Once I ascertained that, I read this thread differently. If you have never read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus", first I recommend that you do but secondly if you have, then you know that women want to 'express feelings' which this OP has done eloquently.
I also ascertained (and asked with no answer) if the fact that her 'intended' had ties to his restaurant if that limited her options to relocate to take a job. If so, that puts her complaint in a totally different light.
I hope she takes some of the advice here and just keeps trying. And, yes, if it makes her feel any better to vent here, then that is what we are here for.
As to the book I mentioned, before you jump on me for being sexist, I'm not. Read the book. It was an eye opener about the different manner in which men and women approach problems. It probably saved my marriage and family (all daughters.)
Learning three simple words right out of the book has made all the difference. "I'm so sorry" is more often than not all that is ask or required when one of the women in my family "expresses feelings".
rmw
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I'm sorry I've neglected this thread, but I've read all your messages and taken much of your advice. Anyway, I have good news.
I got an unexpected bite on my resume from a local company a couple weeks ago. I hadn't even applied for a job there, but they found my resume I posted somewhere. They asked me to interview for a newly created position they haven't advertised. This company hasn't been hiring many people but is known for being very friendly toward women engineers, so I was pretty excited.
I interviewed last week, and I thought it went very well. I liked everyone I talked to, and they seemed to like me. They said I was the last person they were going to interview and would be deciding soon. I got an offer from them a few days later. The offer was a little under $70K, which is less than I expected. I cautiously countered a bit higher to $75K, and I just found out today they accepted. I'm starting February 1st.
Even though I won't be making as much as I expected, I think I'm really going to like this job. I can't wait to start.
Thank you all for your advice. It really helped me a lot. What a difference a few weeks can make.
Thanks once again!!!
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Good luck,
Fe
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
I took a fairly massive cut in pay (~15%) to work with some people that I liked, on projects that I liked. No regrets...
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RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
congrats....
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
"Even though I won't be making as much as I expected, I think I'm really going to like this job."
Says someboby making 75 grand/year.
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity"
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
Anyway, congrats.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
rmw
RE: Retraining to be an Electrician
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RE: Retraining to be an Electrician