Out of college and dismal about job.
Out of college and dismal about job.
(OP)
Hi, I'm a civil engineer in training with interests in geotechnical/foundational field. I've recently graduated college in May 2010 and is working for contractor since July 2010.
I was initially elated to start working at my first job as an engineer in training. After all, the company had a PE that I hoped to work under. However, after three months, I feel I might have gotten myself into something else due to my naivete about the engineering industry.
I realized that the company I work for is less about design and more about build. All we do really is bid on projects designed by other contractors and then we simply go through the motion of ,scheduling, purchasing materials and constructing the project. I've never seen the PE use his PE seal or signature on a design or apply extensive technical engineering knowledge. It seems that he is mostly involved with the paperwork and the bid estimation of each project. The man certainly is knowledgeable, but to me, I see less of an engineer than as an estimator.
My question to you guys is have anyone ever gotten their first engineering job but it wasn't what they expected? Should I stick it through or is there no hope for learning how to design things? I'm worried that what I'm doing will not count towards my EIT experience. Other than that, I'm learning a great deal about contracting and the industry in general.
I was initially elated to start working at my first job as an engineer in training. After all, the company had a PE that I hoped to work under. However, after three months, I feel I might have gotten myself into something else due to my naivete about the engineering industry.
I realized that the company I work for is less about design and more about build. All we do really is bid on projects designed by other contractors and then we simply go through the motion of ,scheduling, purchasing materials and constructing the project. I've never seen the PE use his PE seal or signature on a design or apply extensive technical engineering knowledge. It seems that he is mostly involved with the paperwork and the bid estimation of each project. The man certainly is knowledgeable, but to me, I see less of an engineer than as an estimator.
My question to you guys is have anyone ever gotten their first engineering job but it wasn't what they expected? Should I stick it through or is there no hope for learning how to design things? I'm worried that what I'm doing will not count towards my EIT experience. Other than that, I'm learning a great deal about contracting and the industry in general.





RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
That being said however, engineers should keep their resume updated and visible because even if you are not actively job hunting you never know when your "dream job" might become available. You may get more phone calls or emails about jobs you are not interested in, but you just have to learn to filter them out and be up front with people who contact you.
Learn what you can where you are at and keeps your eyes open for other opportunities.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregtirevold
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
First of all, be glad you have one.
Second, look for a better job. Stay with your current employer for a year, and then move on if you find something better.
Look hard enough you find something that is really great and not just a little bit better.
Don't burn bridges with the PE. You may need his signature in 4 years when you try to get licensed. Leaving your company is ok, just do it on good terms and after you've been there a while.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
Economics and feasibility of construction are key factors among what drives acceptability of an engineering decision.
Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
"Engineering" is a profession, not an industry. Construction is an industry, not a profession. In this respect, the two can be vastly different.
Many engineers who want construction experience jump into construction firms thinking they will learn everything there is to know about engineering and construction. You won't get either!
Most construction firms, these days, are construction managers, not builders. They have limited in-house capability to do anything other than push paper through a project, while subcontracting the actual work of building the project. This leaves a knowledge chasm that is not filled in this process. Many "contractors" have no idea if their subcontractors are building the structure correctly...just that it must be on time and within budget.
The engineering that gets done in a true construction firm is minimal. If it is a design-build company, then you can get some good design and construction experience.
If you want to do engineering design, look for an engineering firm, particularly if you will pursue engineering licensing.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
Additionally, you need time to really assess whether your expectations were even vaguely realistic. My first college roommate entered college planning on being a physics major. By 3rd quarter we had to declare a major, and he declared for English Lit, which was obscure, given the college we were at, but that's whole other story. The moral is that expectations and reality often clash, and will continue to clash. It's the nature of doing business and being a human being. Obviously, companies like GM and Chrysler had different expectations about what they'd be by now, but reality was a different matter.
For your case, you need to assess how much time you might realistically expect to be doing design. A project might take 5 years from start to finish, and often, design only occurs in the first year, followed by many years of procurement and fabrication and maintenance.
TTFN
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RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
Perhaps treat this as a bit of self-developing espionage. Pay attention to anything you can get a hold of related to the design aspects of every project that is being constructed. You will find a direct correlation between the projects with the fewest "construction" issues and the quality of the engineering. You will find a similar direct correlation on the flipside.
Those "nuggets" of information will later prove more valuable than you might realize now.
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
You stated in your first post "I'm worried that what I'm doing will not count towards my EIT experience."
First of all, since you graduated, you can, and should take the EIT. You do not need to have on the job experience to do that. I took mine in my Senior year of College. Perhaps you meant "... towards my experience as an EIT"?
As for your PE, that's a different story, and I would check with your state board to see if it is admissable experience. In that circumstance, you could be spinning your wheels.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
I have taken my FE exam in college and passed. What I meant was that I'm now an EIT working towards my PE. Is this not correct or am I not using the terms correctly here?
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
Thanks for advice. I never made the distinction between consulting and construction! Obviously I know better now since working. I only went through college having fun with friends and was just excited to start being an engineer, but really I should have kept my eyes peeled about the real world and about where I'm heading.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
I graduated from college thinking I would be designing integrated circuits, which never happened, and within 8 yrs, I was no longer even in a position to have designed a chip. But, it's all been good experience.
You may find that you have a talent for something else, as well, and you should treat this as a paid opportunity to explore whether you might have better career in the type of company you're in now, compared with what you had expected.
TTFN
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RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
You are lucky to be in construction at this point. You are getting first hand information as to how engineering designs are actualized in the field or NOT! When or if you move into the design field, you'll know where to look for the snakes.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
My wife is an estimator and currently blowing the doors off my salary. :)
Stick it out a year and see whether you like it. Everybody switches careers about 2 years after they get out of school anyway. You could be a fabulously successful pastry chef in a decade.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
Plus, estimating, purchasing, etc, is GREAT experience. I do that in my job as a desk jockey in consulting engineering. When the economy turns around, you will be in a great position to land the job you want. You will be tailor-made to move on up.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
Stick it out as long as you can - although you may not love it at the moment, first jobs are tough! Everyone on this site will tell you that. One tends to have an idea of what to expect and expectations as a graduate are high, then you start the real engineering and find things are very different. As you gain experience, you will look back at this moment and realise it was worth the struggle - stick it out as long as you can and then move when you feel it is right. Do not burn any bridges as this world is small and you never know when your paths will cross again. Good luck.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
Why should you be any different?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
More germane is that you shouldn't stop learning, regardless of what job you have; if for nothing else, exercising your mind could prevent Alzheimer's.
TTFN
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RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
That being said, there are many facets of design work. If you are geotechnical you may work for firm that does soil boring and provides recommendation on foundation design. Just take advantage of your current situation, its worth will reveal itself in time.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
If you wish to do innovative r&d type of work, I advise seeking an MS or better yet, a Ph.D. A BS will get you so far, but an MS will open doors a BS won't. I know first hand.
After my BE (a few extra hours more than a BS), I had job offers, but not the type of innovative work I ultimately wanted. After the MS, better opportunities were offered to me. An advanced degree makes a big difference.
That was 30 yrs. ago. I went back to grad school 3 yrs. ago to begin the Ph.D. I am about 2/3 of the way through it. I took classes for 3 yrs. while working full time.
Hopefully I'll get even better offers with the Ph.D.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
And I don't say that lightly as I'm damn near the pasture myself. Yet I do have advanced degrees and work hard to stay in front of new material.
Now back to the original post. As a construction engineer you can word your experience to fit the requirements of the PE examination. That isn't a problem. You likely oversee some sort of quality testing or assurance if not for the owner then for your company so you don't get hit with a non-conformance claim. You might get into some haul estimations - shrinkage factors, compactive effort and or concrete mix designs to suit your operations. All of that believe it or not is on the Civil PE exam.
Perhaps what you really mean is that you don't feel like your getting the experience you want. In that case, be patience, hold on to the job until you're sure the economy is back up and then look for what you really want to do. Of course you'll need to start at the end of the line soaking up new experiences just like any newbie but it's prbobaly worth it. Like Ron said, it's a profession and you can make out of it what you will.
Good luck
Regards,
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RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
RE: Out of college and dismal about job.
We do get involved in projects that are innovative and top the charts with funding. When dealing with innovative methods and hundreds of millions of dollars a higher level of expertise is required to mitigate risk.
Regards,
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