×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

CFL Light Bulbs
8

CFL Light Bulbs

CFL Light Bulbs

(OP)
I have about had it with the new CFL light bulbs.  Sure, I like saving energy and can live with the slow start, funny light colors, added cost, etc.  BUT what I can't accept is the VERY short life span.

I don't think I have had any last a year and some have given up the ghost in a couple of weeks.  I know I have some traditional bulbs that are approaching ten years! - because I installed them when I moved in!!  I took a few back to the BIG BOX store where I got them to complain.  Didn't really want my money back - just wanted the manager to know that I thought they were useless.  He said he had not heard of any short life complaints and gave me some free bulbs.

I went and asked the clerks working in the light bulb area and they said they have had numerous complaints about short lives..

Any body else out there see this happening.. And now that GE has closed the last US bulb plant - what are we to do??  And the gov't wants us to switch over by 2012??

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Embrace LED, it's the future.  Prices are continually dropping.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

CFL bulbs are still a relatively new industry, so low life expectancy is not a surprise.

You can, however, help yourself by staying away from the cheapest stuff.  Some of the higher end stuff seems to have life only somewhat less than incandescent, and I would classify those are infant mortality fails.

 

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Very common complaint. What I think happened was, the major mfrs invested in the development, refinement and marketing of the technology, but the Chinese came along and spit out a lot of cheap junk at prices that drove the quality mfrs out of the market, now most of the ones available out there are the junk. When I worked for Siemens, I talked with guys from our sister company Sylvania at trade shows. They said they had already pretty much abandon CFLs in favor of LED technology.


"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln  
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies  

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Mike,

Yes, I agree, the longevity of the new CFL's can vary widely, even from bulbs in the same package.

I've taken to writing the date (month/year) on the stems of all the CFL bulbs I change or install.  Then I can check when replacing if I got my "warranted" life out of them.  So far, it seems to be effective, the dated bulbs don't fail...

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Your observation is correct. I've been collecting dead ones for the E27 base.  The plastic base of the CFL makes a nice mount for the 36 LED disks I buy for my 12V camp.  Most of these CFL run pretty hot and with almost no ventilation.  It is not surprising that they last less than a year.  It may interest some that I run a few of these electronic ballasts on 140V DC from 12V inverters that have blown out the H bridge.

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

I don't mind the LED spotlights, but at about $20 each (on sale), you need to think about where you use them the most. On the same note the $1 CFL's (also on sale) you also need to think about where you use them.

The problem is most of these won't work with an older dimmer, or photo eye's (outdoors), or in the fridge.

But the good news is we are now seeing more of them on the discount shelf next to the pink flimangos.

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

I've had at least a dozen or so that only lasted a few hours.. Then I've had some running for 2 years now (6 hours a day).. Same brand/type... They are so cheap now that I always buy a few extras... And I always go with daylight 5000K color.

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

The little woman and I were at Home Depot a couple of nights ago to pick up some construction supplies, including can lights, so we stopped in the lightbulb aisle to take a look at what LED units were available.  I was not impressed with the lies on the packaging.

An 11W CFL was listed as equivalent to a 60W and put out 800 lumens... fine, the lumen output for a 60W should be in the 800-850 range.  An LED bulb two shelves over was listed as a 60W equivalent... but it showed a listing of 500 lumens, which is a rough equivalent to a 35W bulb.  <sigh>  Despite all of the listings being forced onto the packaging by the gov, it's all still wildly inaccurate.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

I agree and disagree with MacGyv on the LED's. They do put out less light, but they are much more directional. I would not use the ominidirectional LED's. But for spot lights they work very well.

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

The gov'ment has just come out with a plan to stop using Watts in the labeling of CFLs.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

cranky,

Lumens are lumens, regardless of what bulb type they come from.  If a 60W incandescent puts out an average of 800-850 lumens, I expect a "60W-equivalent" LED light to put out the same.  If it wants to only put that out in a tight beam, so be it, but don't claim equivalence to one power level and then fail to meet the spec.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

I stopped mourning, wailing and knashing my teeth over the occasional early-death of CFL bulbs once Costco started selling them for well under $2 each (Qty 8 for Cdn$13 last time I checked). Seriously, they're about the same price as a bag of potato chips.

I believe that LED light bulbs have moved into the market niche of being relatively expensive to purchase ($10+), making utterly false claims about brightness, and then suddenly and inexplicably dying after ten hours of use.

The brand "Darks of America" (sometimes spelled 'Lights of America') sold me two LED bulbs that were as dim as night-lites, and then totally dark after about a dozen hours of use (the lifespan of the two, combined). Being burned-out does save a great deal of power...


 

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

The problem with Costco though is that their stock is not always continuous.  But, yes, the return policy is tops.  We have used it many times on Chinese products, and that is the truth.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto:  KISS
Motivation:  Don't ask

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Well, as pointed out, when they burn out the energy consumption drops dramatically, with the added benefit of less light pollution.  I love govenment mandates!

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Interesting bit of trivia from NPR this morning.  A typical refrigerator light bulb puts out more light than all the candles in a typical 17th or 18th century house.  So, we're positively rolling in photons! winky smile

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

MacGYV, have you consitered the equivlent light might refer to useful light, not total light produced?

As I said the LED is directional, or all available light going in one direction. The typical inconvenint light goes in all directions. And lighting the back of the light fixture is very important, don't you think?

And you are right they need to be clearer on there compairasons. Because you are looking at pure lumens, and not useful lumens.

The other thing I noticed is some LED lights are very heavy, which also limits there usefulness.

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Any high quality LED lighting will have an attached optic to distribute the light.  Don't expect a $5 3w LED light to perform to any usable expectations or be easy on the eyes.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Never buy Darks of America...  The worst lifetimes I've ever seen.  Often measured in hours.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

I wonder if that is what I saw in the early 80's at CR&D.  They had a standard light bulb with a toroid inside it to excite the electrons.  Interesting how NEW takes 30 years!

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

The vu1 looks interesting although it isn't available and the site doesn't speculate when it will be. There are a couple of errors that I would put down to marketing hype as well. LEDs are dimmable it's just that some of the power supplies that are integral in the product are not. There are dimmable LED A19 bulbs at Lowe's now. As far as heat goes, LEDs are fine as long as the sink is designed properly.

The price of LED bulbs will continue to go down. The early market isn't for consumers anyway. The cost justification for LED is for applications where a person is paid to replace the bulb. The savings are in the energy plus maintainence. For consumers the cost will come down in a year or so. I just bought some Sylvania 40W equivalents on sale for $10 each and I'm pretty happy with them for what I intend to use them for. Once a bulb wins the L-Prize it will be subsidized by the local power companies and the DOE making it affordable and competetive with CFL without the mercury.

Harold
SW2010 SP3.0 OPW2010 SP1.0 Win XP Pro 2002 SP3
Dell 690, Xeon 5160 @3.00GHz, 3.25GB RAM
nVidia Quadro FX4600
www.lumenflow.com

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Sounds like we're being legislated back into the Dark Ages...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto:  KISS
Motivation:  Don't ask

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Jmkirk,

Thanks for the tip!  VU1 corp. stock on 10/6 was about $.54 per share.  On 10/8 VU1 "announced that it has received final approval for UL listing for the Company's  R30 Electron Stimulated Luminescent energy-efficient reflector light bulbs.  "  Stock is now trading at around $.90 per share.  A tidy little profit for the 401k.  Someday if we get the chance to meet, I owe you a beer.
 

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Sounds like a pump and dump penny stock. If the company that invented light bulbs gave up on it, I wouldn't hold my breath for these guys to make a profit.  Tell me how you did a year from now.

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

CFL has been around for over 20yrs and is a mature product.  Hence the reason it only costs $2-$5.  

CFl's are all made in China.  There are about 4-5 companies that make almost all the CFl's and then put someone else name on them.  Philips, GE, Sylvania, Home Depot, Lowes ect all buy their bulbs from the same guys.  Philips, GE and Sylvania might spec the electronics but the manufacture will often swap out spec components for cheaper ones with out notifying the big guy.  I have friends who deal with this problem all the time.

Sylvania still has light bulb plants in the US.  They still make the standard A19, BR and Candella bulbs in St Marys, PA.  They also make halogen lamps in Ky and still make flourecent tubs here in the US as well.  GE has closed it last plant but Sylvania still has plants in opperation here in the US.

 

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Quote (GRF):

CFl's are all made in China.

Quote (GRF):

Sylvania... still make flourecent tubs here in the US as well
ponder

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Dan - Compact fluorescents are all hand blown glass (high labor content) but the straight tubes are not and can still be made in the US. I am think that's what GRF is alluding to anyway.

Harold
SW2010 SP3.0 OPW2010 SP1.0 Win XP Pro 2002 SP3
Dell 690, Xeon 5160 @3.00GHz, 3.25GB RAM
nVidia Quadro FX4600
www.lumenflow.com

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

I seem to get better life (and the word seem is used advisedly; I haven't recorded any life times) on the CFLs if I use them only in those fixtures that tend to get switched on for longer periods.  I keep incandescents in the fixtures that get rapidly cycled (some in hallways or other places that only light for a pass through, or other where my wife just can't remember which switch is which) and seem to have really reduced the numbers of failures.  It seems that the CFLs as designed and ballasted may be start-limited.

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

Ever check the ballast on the CFLs?  They get incredibly hot especially when placed inside an enclosed fixture such as dome lights.  I find the CFLs last quite long in open fixtures not cycled very often.  I also don't buy the cheap ones.

I am patiently waiting the day when LED lights have a nice warm color to them  Nothing brightens your mood better than good warm light.  They also work great as shop lights.  No more burning your hands when you go to pick up your lamp under the car.  I think Dan understands this quite well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is broken, fix it.  If it isn't broken, I'll soon fix that.

RE: CFL Light Bulbs

TG,

Look for "warm white" or "daylight" bulbs rather than "bright white"... these use a warmer color of phosphour, or they include red/yellow LEDs in the mix to warm up the color.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources