Smart questions
Smart answers
Smart people
Join Eng-Tips Forums

Member Login

Remember Me
Forgot Password?
Join Us!

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips now!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

Join Eng-Tips
*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.
Jobs from Indeed

Link To This Forum!

Partner Button
Add Stickiness To Your Site By Linking To This Professionally Managed Technical Forum.
Just copy and paste the
code below into your site.

drukvat (Industrial) (OP)
28 Sep 10 1:25
Acc. to AWS D.1.1 Clause 3, it is allowed to have a bevel on
Single V-joint as Figure 3.4- "Prequalified CJP Groove Welded Joint Details"

Limitations are for FCAW welding max groove angle 60 degrees +10 - 0.

However, can i Qualify a joint type 80 degrees as for Clause 4 'Part B-Welding Procedure Specification.

Customer told me that i have to pass the code requirments of clause 3.

Mr168 (Materials)
28 Sep 10 14:33
If you're qualifying a weld without backing, then the prequalified joint details play no role in your qualification.  

I don't see why the customer would find this problematic, given that an increase in groove angle is not an essential variable.   
Helpful Member!  gtaw (Structural)
29 Sep 10 1:31
If you are willing to demonstrate the validity of the procedure you are proposing by qualifying it in accordance with Clause 4, you can do just about anything you want.

Best regards - Al  

drukvat (Industrial) (OP)
5 Oct 10 7:28
Quote:  don't see why the customer would find this problematic, given that an increase in groove angle is not an essential variable.'Unquote

I am not so involved with AWS D.1.1 here in Europe often EN-ISO 15614-1 is involved.

I found value after long search that a prequalified WPS(Clause 3) or a WPS that is Qualfied by WPQR (Clause 4)has to deal with eighter Table 4.5 (essential variables) and for Clause 4 including Table 4.6, if CVN testing is applicable

This is always involved for our customers related to offshore constructions.

Table 4.5 describes that for Groove Angle limitation is (AWS D.1.1 2010 page 144 33)A change exeeding the tolerances of 3.12,3.13,3.13.5,,

does this mean, that on level of Clause 4, if i do WPQR testing with a 1G position, C.J.P 70 degrees bevel, i am only qualfied for this joint limitation regarding maximum limitation groove angle?

Can somebody advise me how to interpretate the rules about prequaliefied variables, and clause 4, WPS testing?

Thanks greatfull!!
Kiwi2671 (Structural)
23 Oct 10 1:46
As the guys have noted above they are two different sections of the code.
If you are using a prequalified WPS your essential variables are Figure 3.4 and Table 3.7.
If you are qualifying your WPS by testing your essential variables are listed in Tables 4.5 or 4.6, whichever is applicable.
Hope that helps,
Kiwi2671 (Structural)
23 Oct 10 1:52
I only have a copy of AWS 2004 so not sure if it has changed but the note you mention in Table 4.5 is only applicable to a decrease in the groove angle, not increase.
If you qualified at 70 degrees you can increase to 80 but you can't decrease to 60 degrees,
gtaw (Structural)
24 Oct 10 7:20
Clause 4 provides the means of qualifying any joint design you wish to use in production. That is, if a prequalified joint detail as depicted by Figures 3.3 and 3.4 do not meet your needs for what ever reason, you can qualify the welding procedure using the joint detail you propose to use.

If the joint detail you qualify passes all the requisite tests per Clause 4 parts A and B, you not are only limited to the joint detail you have qualified, but you are also qualified to weld any of the prequalified joint details depicted in Figures 3.3 and 3.4.

The process of qualifying a welding procedure specification is simply a demonstration that the procedure you propose to use in production will produce sound welds that meet the minimum mechanical properties specified by the applicable welding standard. In this case AWS D1.1.

Good luck,  

Best regards - Al  

drukvat (Industrial) (OP)
25 Oct 10 3:27
GTAW! Thank for your helpfull explanation. Fo fo my understanding, if i Qualfiy a joint 1G with 70 degrees bevel acc to clause 4 (AWS D.1.1 2010)i have to deal with the limitations of tabel 4.5 and 4.6, because Charpy-V notch requirments we do have to our customer.

Than my range of qualification is 10 degrees increase Maximum, and i am already qualfied acc to figure 3.3 (PJP groove) and figure 3.4 (CJP groove welds on backing)with the range of this figures.

For the joint change acc to table 4.5 (31) (a change in groove type needs re-qualfication exept if this is acc to 3.12 and 3.13) is not allowed.

Do i understand well now?
gtaw (Structural)
25 Oct 10 9:09
I'm not sure I do understand what you mean.

If you qualify a welding procedure in accordance with Clause 4, Parts A and B, you need to comply with Table 4.5. If notch toughness is a requirement, Part D also applies.`The additional (in addition to Table 4.5) constraints of Table 4.6 come into play. I do not see any restriction in Table 4.6 that would disallow the use of one of the prequalified joint details included in Figures 3.3 (PJP) or 3.4 (CJP).

Best regards - Al  

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!

Back To Forum

Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close