More employment opportunities for engineers?
More employment opportunities for engineers?
(OP)
Just curious, but do people feel like the job outlook for engineers is improving with the larger economy? We've technically been in a recovery for a while now, but the engineering jobs being advertised seem few and far between, if there are any at all. Am I missing something, or is this a jobless recovery for engineers as well? The only jobs I see being advertised are so specific with their requirements that over 90% of the engineers that apply probably aren't considered qualified. Your thoughts?





RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
There are two people I know with 15+ years of experience who are taking jobs with a $25,000 pay cut.
It doesn't seem to be getting any better.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Industrial clients seem a little more inclined to spend money, but much of that is for long over due projects, not from a need for expansion.
The latest number from AIA Billing index is still less than 50 which represents a precieved decline in future billings. I think that your perception is correct.
I do know engineers that are extermely busy right now. This is largely due to layoffs and the lack of confidence by management that the workload is anything other than a temporary uptick.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
No, the outlook isn't improving. In fact, I think it's getting worse unless you're willing to relocate.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Read. Ponder. Learn.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
With the olympics and some very large infrastructure projects there is lots of work around for the right people.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
An engineer's skill set is not as transferable between industries as say a computer programmer, and the job postings cotelecom mentions are evidence of it. Companies are posting job ads that could really only be filled by poaching a competitor's employees or laid off workers. This doesn't mean you shouldn't apply though since companies often put up such "wishlists" just to see what hits they get when in fact they are willing to accept less.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregtirevold
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
You mean "A mediocre engineer's skill set".
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Said another way I can find another job, if I am willing to move to the places the job is. If I were a generalist, I may not have to move, but I might have to take a pay cut.
When you enter the engineering field, you in a way choose which path you take. That's life.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Sometimes the same process occurs with scholarships,; this process with scholarships may be viewed as a tricky way to steeer money to a known applicant .
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
As to the argument about transferrability of skills, perhaps the best way to say this is that a specialist engineer's skillset is not easily transferred to a new specialty. While it is possible, employers don't feel they have the time for it. A specialist's transition from one INDUSTRY to another is far easier, provided you can get by the HR folks who only look for XXX on your resume.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Before the downturn I was interviewing for jobs in things like petroleum that I had no experience in, afterwards I was struggling to get an interview even when I ticked all the boxes.
Accept what you can.
GregTirrevold,
I disagree that engineering is limiting, I think the only time it is limiting is if you spend 10 years doing a very narrow range of tasks. I have had jobs of very different parts of the industry in specialist sign, telecoms, temporary works and industrial companies all of which are very different from each other.
What you need to do is highlight transferrable skillsets.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
If you're posting from the US, I'm not sure from where this opening statement originates. We've had negative GDP growth for the entire year, and only a temporary decrease in joblessness (driven largely by the census). The economy shed another 50,000+ jobs in August.
The outlook is not bright, and it's driven mostly by uncertainty caused by Washington DC.
-TJ Orlowski
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
The ONLY marketable thing about civil engineering is government regulations and the fact that the gov't requires a PE stamp. That's it. In fact, the only civil engineers I know that are busy work directly or indirectly for the government. The profession is such that innovation is frowned upon, unless you consider your minority status or political maneuvering innovation:)
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
If I were to list the top three most 'worthless' (your word, not mine) engineering BACHELORS degrees, I would probably put environmental engineering at the top of that list, with geotech and structural civil immediately following. Nearly 100% of environmental consulting companies require a masters degree, and the same could probably be said for geotech and structural as well - simply check the help wanted ads if you don't believe me. If you want an engineering job in any of those 3 niches, you'll amost have to stay in school for a masters degree. Unfortunately, I'm not sure taking on that much additional student debt makes much sense since people in those industries don't seem to make much more money than other civil engineers in other disciplines, not to mention less than nearly every single other non-civil engineering discipline too. One could probably validly argue now that the financial and mental hardship one must endure to pursue and complete any difficult engineering degree, as they all are at good universities, simply isn't worth it anymore. For example, I know several nurses and accountants that make far more than every engineering acquaintance I can speak of, with the same level of experience or less. Yet the aptitude required and difficulty of these school programs is infinitely less than that of engineering. Why study engineering then, unless one is determined to be become an 'engineer'?
I think I'll have to refrain from putting up these non-technical threads on here from now on. I've gotten everything from people blaming Obama for the recession, claiming the economy is better in Europe (I only recently worked there, so believe me when I say it isn't), and now calling civil engineering degrees worthless and selling non-ABET environmental programs at community colleges instead.
I had originally thought putting up such a thread my elicit some intelligent and insightful responses, given that this site is primarily used by 'engineers' or people claiming to be. I guess I was wrong. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.......
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Given that the entire premise of your OP was based a fallacy, I would agree that your thread was a waste of everyone's time. I wouldn't say it was because of all the dopplegangers posing as thoughtful engineers on this forum.
-TJ Orlowski
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
HAZOP at www.curryhydrocarbons.ca
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Whilst there has been a slight upturn at least in official figures many companies are still running at below full capacity and many have downsized and laid off staff and have one person doing two half jobs.
The initial upturn will be taken up with slack that is still within companies and any new hires will be for more specific roles rather than general positions that can be covered.
At least in the UK there is an increase in VAT just around the corner and huge cut backs in the public sector, confidence is still low with the people I know. Companies are still wary to take on new hires when many have lost money over the last two years and may have to lay new hires off again before they can see a return.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
BTW, this forum is called "where is engineering going in the next 5 years". I offered my insight that env. engineering and water/wastewater treatment technologies sectors will boom. Instead of narrowly asking the question "where are the jobs??? wah wah wah", he should be asking where is the market going and how can I educate myself, get involved, and jump onto being an innovator and CREATE something, instead of waiting around for people to hand you some math problem on a silver platter like you've been taught to think should happen.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
some well established industries have greyed-out , and are filled with baby boomers ready to retire and to be replaced by a new crop. Electric power generation ( electric utilities and their suppliers of boilers, turbines, etc) is one such industry ready for complete regeneration. Nuclear power industries ( and its gov't regulators ) as well.
A recent US law passsed 2 weeks ago may accelerate early reitirement, to make room for the next generation- gov't to pay for the health benefits of those early retirees ( 55-64 yrs old) that make way for the next gen.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
An industry only exists when it has a true value proposition, not just an imagined one based on people's wishful thinking! And innovation is only useful in a business sense when it solves problems in such a way to generate a value proposition.
Environmental and water/wastewater technologies will only boom when we make water and waste disposal more expensive. The market is incapable of making that happen on its own- governments need to intervene with regulation and taxation. 20 years into my career I'm still waiting for this to happen, but I've long ago stopped holding my breath.
My suggestion to young engineers is to not buy the hype about ANY "up and coming" industry. Engineers wishing to remain employed as engineers should pick a discipline based on what fascinates them most, then build good generalist skills in that discipline. Engineers wishing to be compensated properly for their efforts should go into business for themselves or with partners, when and to the extent that is possible in one's specialty- preferrably capturing more of the value chain rather than settling for hourly fees alone. Engineers unable to remain employed or in business should leave the profession. And engineers should stop flogging the profession of engineering to kids as if it were "the next big thing"- that advice is at least 60 years out of date. 2/3s of people with engineering degrees in Canada have jobs not associated with engineering. I don't see any likelihood of that situation improving any time soon. That doesn't make an engineering education a waste of time- no education is a waste of time if you're of the right mindset. But an engineering education is no longer professional training (ie. with a high probability of leading to a job IN the profession) in the same way that medical school is.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Or when the government subsidizes an industry on the backs of taxpayers. :)
-TJ Orlowski
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
In lieu of Atlengpe's postings, apparently we all need to start adapting to and planning for future engineering careers, rather than waiting around for our old silver platter jobs to come back that have forever gone with the wind.
So, with that in mind, maybe we should change the direction of this discussion, more along the lines of what engineering careers look the most promising over the next decade. The most obvious reference would be the BLS's growth projections through 2018:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
Some of their projections are quite surprising, and probably debatable. But how they come to these growth estimates is anyone's guess.
Here's a few examples of their assumed growth rates:
Biomedical engineering - 72%
Chemical engineering - 2%
Civil engineering - 24%
Computer engineering - 4%
Electrical engineering - 2%
Environmental engineering - 31%
Mechanical engineering - 6%
Petroleum engineering - 18%
So, some engineering disciplines will experience growth far above average, while others will grow less than nearly every other industry. Would anyone like to dispute these numbers or add some more insight into where these BLS projections come from?
I for one don't believe environmental engineering will ever experience a growth rate of 31%. Unless local counties start building water/waste water treatment plants in every single neighborhood (but everyone in this country already has access to clean water), and companies start polluting heavily again, how could we possibly need that many environmental engineers? This career was being flogged as the 'next big thing' while I was in college ten years ago, as it was 20 years as Moltenmetal can attest to. Yet it still isn't!
And how many people are going to pursue an MS/PhD in biomedical engineering for only $77K per year? That too doesn't seem very realistic.....
Your thoughts on the matter?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Lots of mechanical & electrical engineers will work in Biomedical fields without specialist bio mechanical degrees.
My job, or at least my employers market, overlaps hi tech nanotechnology and biomedical.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
The population of most metro areas grew by around that much, so really 30% is not high at all for me.
All those numbers look like they represent what would happen if bush had 4 terms.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
But within any profession there are many avenues that can be choosen.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
ht
http://www.censusscope.org/us/chart_popl.html
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Water engineers just don't seem to do so well in the electrical area. Or at least the drawings I've seen don't reflect that.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
My university has canned the environmental/chemical engineering program it offered for the past 10+ years because of lack of marketplace interest in the graduates. An environmental/civil program is still offered.
I don't see any engineering discipline growing in the developed world beyond a small multiple of base economic growth. International trade in services is growing in a huge way, and the lure of lower cost labour markets will be enormous.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
cotelecom, I'm just here to talk about what I know about the industry I work in and communicate this to you in plain English. Feel free to ignore me if you would rather talk about statistics.
I can't speak for other engineers, but for civil engineers, I would expect that many graduates are moving to growing cities like Atlanta, Austin, Raleigh, Seattle, Minneapolis, etc. for civil engineering jobs in the development industry. All these towns above are I believe in the top 10 for growth. Atlanta grew 30% and Raleigh did better at 42%. I would imagine that many civil engineers already left many rustbelt cities a decade ago.
Then you have the more specialized civil engineers working on more complex large-scale government projects in all the big cities like Boston, Miami, LA, Seattle etc. etc. and they are usually working for large international companies with big pockets and political power.
There are so many niches, levels, project types, and complexities in this profession, I think that you should assume that I'm going to have a limited viewpoint based on my particular niche.
It seems like you are just trying to have a very generalized discussion here? If so, I apologize for wasting your time. It seems to me like this forum is more valuable if people are more specific about their niches and try and find other with the same background, if you want any good responses.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Looking ahead 5 years and I think there will be a shortage of experienced electrical engineers in the UK.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Second, there are new technologies that are being implemented and generally better addressed by newly educated engineers. Much of it is driven by the need to reduce the consumption of fossil based fuels.
For example, the replacement of all conventional concrete components ( portland cement based) with geopolymer based concrete ( using flyash + lye in lieu of portland cement) would require a whole retooling of that industry. A surge in the developement of nuclear power plants is another field that is woefully short of fresh blood .
Water treatment to address the huge developing issue of groundwater pollution, both from hydro fracture drilling of nat gas, as well ans newly recognized pollution from conventional sources ( made visible by improvements in monitorign instrumentation).
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
I still get constant calls from out of state head hunters trying to get me to move.
There are few carees out there that are still golden (lots of opportunities/has a great outlook). I can't think of any at the moment. Even health care has its issues.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Its really bad out there, would professional designation help me ?
Lot of my buddies say that pursuing designation wouldn't make a difference in automotive.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
I'm more concerned about the slide in our life style. If we keep shiping our manufacturing jobs over there, then that is where our money will go. However I honestly can't buy the products from a company that throws the stock holders under a bridge, and takes goverment money.
So I believe some engineering jobs, like automotive, is in a bad place.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
We still export movies, TV shows, software, airplanes, porn, coal, rice, wheat, and if we allowed, our universities would be full. And for this we import money.
Most of these things don't get counted in out GDP.
A strong dollar makes imports cheeper. Things like bananas, cars, oil, and little plastic things from China.
We can make more jobs simply by making taxes cheeper, which would bring more businesses here.
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
http://jobs.stv.tv/jobs/edinburgh/
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?
Lets just say, none of the above.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: More employment opportunities for engineers?