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Need a guideline for when to repave
4

Need a guideline for when to repave

Need a guideline for when to repave

(OP)
Have a potential client who wants to set up routine inspections of, among other things, their roads.  This is a HOA responsible for long term maintenance, that needs to juggle their meager budget year by year to manage maintenance costs.

Ideally, I'm looking for a publication, or even just a website, that has rule-of-thumb photographs showing when it's necessary to top dress, repave, etc etc, that I can then tie in to estimates and whatnot to get an idea how they can best spend their money.  

I did some asphalt mix design tech work for a road paving outfit in my college days, but that's the extent of my exposure with asphalt.  No field experience.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

2
I would suggest that you research and learn to do a Pavement Condition Index.  This is an objective, visual method of evaluating the condition of a pavement based on established criteria.  It is also a standard under ASTM (See ASTM D6433).

With this process, you can develop a rudimentary pavement management system for your client.  While the process is used for high level pavement management systems, it is also applicable to small pavement sections as well.

You can then do a PCI of the pavement, prioritize the repairs or replacement based on the condition, and better utilize the funds available for pavement repairs.

One thing you'll learn in the prioritization is that you only repair those sections that are amenable to repair, so that you can salvage them.  Those that have very low PCI ratings may be allowed to deteriorate further so that full-depth reconstruction can be done at some point.  For those pavement sections, "top down" repairs waste money.

Check with various state departments of transportation.  Some of them have good, simple pavement management systems that can be adapted to local, small applications.

The Georgia DOT has a pavement condition rating system called PACES, but you'll have to call their maintenance office to get a copy of the manual...it does not appear to be available online.

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

(OP)
"(See ASTM D6433)"

"PACES"

**Perfect**  

Thanks.

 

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

beej67....the State of Washington pavement group is very good.  Download their free software.  It's as good as you'll find.  With it you can do elastic layer analysis (based on tried and true algorithms) and can even do falling weight deflectometer data analysis.  The have a beta version of a rigid pavement analysis program as well.

The GDOT manual is similar to other states, all based on the AASHTO method, which is fine.


 

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

(OP)
I worked as an asphalt tech in college, did some of the early testing with trying to incorporate RAP into Superpave designs.  Also got to do some testing for the SMA mix that went down on the connector downtown in Atlanta before the Olympics - very high tech stuff, had pulped newspaper fiber in the mix as a stiffener.  This will be one of my first forays into PCI evaluation though.  

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.  Definitely earning your pink stars, sir.

 

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

beej67...Glad to help.  Who did you work with as an asphalt tech?  I spent many years with a firm that is headquartered in Atlanta, so I know a few people involved in that business.

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

unless your HOA has some major arterials, this needn't be a science project. I am an HOA board member, responsible for a private street. We seal about every 4 years, patch any bad areas of AC pavement or concrete curbs and gutters at the same time.

We have set up a reserve fund to mill and overlay approximately every 25 years. The original pavement lasted about 20 - 22 years and then was re-done. It has lasted 10 years now and still looks relatively good.

Since this is just a local, private street, the only real load the pavement sees is the weekly garbage truck and the occasional fire truck or moving van.

Every time you seal coat, walk the job with the contractor and you can get an evaluation of the general condition.

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

(OP)
Ron:
Worked as a co-op with APAC Material Services Division, under Dr. Randy West, back in APAC's hey day.  (I think Randy is back at Auburn now, at NCAT)  Back in the 90s, APAC was set up as a family of semi-independent paving companies all owned by Ashland Oil, with a side company ("APAC Inc.") that functioned merely as a services company for the other companies in the organization.  It was a very lateral corporate hierarchy, and very lean, and competitive.  APAC Mat Svcs was a lab that did all the difficult mix designs that individual divisions didn't have the expertise to do themselves, and also did a lot of private research and training, particularly when DOTs were moving away from Marshall design.  Fun co-op job for a couple years, but half of what I did was just shake rock and pound pills.  :)

 
cvg:
I realize they don't need a science project, and I believe the guy I was approached by realizes this as well, but the rest of the home owners are pointing at some hairline cracks and doing the Handwaving Freakoutery routine, so I think he wants something written up that settles them down.  Thanks a bunch for the timelines you posted.  That will help a lot.   

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

thats the problem when you get non-engineers trying to make decisions. Fact is that most paving has a design life of 20 - 30 years. Asphalt concrete is flexible, it cracks and that is it's nature. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the pavement.

You could learn quite a bit and perhaps do a little marketing at the same time by calling the City engineer or at least the engineer in charge of the city streets. Find out what their maintenance schedule is and maybe they can also give you some guidelines. Your nervous nellie homeowners might be re-assured by that information.

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

If all you have is hairline cracks, it sounds like a propitious time for a surface treatment. If the cracks get much worse, a surface treatment won't do much.

 

     "...students of traffic are beginning to realize the false economy of mechanically controlled traffic, and hand work by trained officers will again prevail." - Wm. Phelps Eno, ca. 1928

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

Although the OP has not mentioned anything about cracks, I agree that if cracks are small and related to weathering, a surface treatment would be in order.

I would warn against using a spray-applied or even a squeegee applied coal tar emulsion as a surface treatment.  In my opinion those are a waste of money.

If you go with a surface treatment, make it a slurry seal or "microsurfacing" approach using asphaltic materials, not coal tar.

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

(OP)
I haven't done a full inventory of the roads yet, but there was one spot near the front at an intersection that had (testing my new found knowledge of PCI lingo here) level 1 block cracking, with a hint of load (alligator) cracking through the turn because of transverse wheel bearing loads.  Likely due to weathering and stiffening of the AC, is what I figure.  No telling what sort of gypsy paver they got to do the original work.  Pavement was laid around 1999 and hasn't been overlaid since, so I'm going to recommend they get onto a schedule like CVG's above, provided they hire me to do the study anyway.  Visited the site yesterday, need to get them a proposal today.

Ron, who'd you work for in Atlanta?

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

beej67...18 years at Law Engineering (now Mactec)...4 years with another, smaller firm (500 people) headquartered there.

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

(OP)
Lot of folks went through Law.  Did you know a hydrologist named Gebre Aberra?

~500 people sounds like JJ&G, depending on the timeframe.   

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

beej67...no, didn't work much with the hydrology/environmental group.  The other group was QORE, Inc....being with that one led me to go back out on my own!!

Yep...Law has a big alumni association!  Great training ground in engineering, though!

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

(OP)
I've used QORE for environmental stuff at my old business.  They do good work, and are very professional.

 

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Need a guideline for when to repave

beej67...spent 4 years as a Senior VP/Regional Mgr. with QORE.  Basically a good company with a few at the Board of Directors level without a clue.  That's why I decided to move on. They've since been bought by S&ME, just before biting the dust, as I understand.

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