tips for buying a new laser system
tips for buying a new laser system
(OP)
When buying a new laser system, (or any equipment for that matter) be sure to ask about replacement parts and tech support. Get their policy in writing!!! Also get in writing that the policy will not change after you buy their equipment!!!
As for replacement parts, be sure the system manufacturer has an open policy on buying parts. I can't see any reason why a manufacturer would not sell any part on the machine. Some manufacturers will not sell certain parts for "safety" reasons, or they feel the customer is not capable of replacing the part. There is no reason for this. Unless there's some state/federal law restricting access to an item, such as R12 refrigerant or hazardous chemicals, there is absolutely no reason for a manufacturer to hold back parts.
Granted, the manufacturer should not be expected to send out a huge box of parts and let the customer keep throwing them at the machine until the problem goes away as this isn't practical. The manufacturer would have to test any part that was tried on the machine before returning them to their stock.
There is also no reason for a manufacturer to not warranty a part if it was not installed by the manufacturers service personnel, unless the manufacturer can prove the customer damaged the part.
When your machine is down, what is the manufacturer's priority? Will the manufacturer help you get your machine back on line by whatever means, or will they use the opportunity to get some income for their service/parts department? Whatever they do, it sends a strong message to the customer as to whose machine they will buy when they need more capacity.
As for replacement parts, be sure the system manufacturer has an open policy on buying parts. I can't see any reason why a manufacturer would not sell any part on the machine. Some manufacturers will not sell certain parts for "safety" reasons, or they feel the customer is not capable of replacing the part. There is no reason for this. Unless there's some state/federal law restricting access to an item, such as R12 refrigerant or hazardous chemicals, there is absolutely no reason for a manufacturer to hold back parts.
Granted, the manufacturer should not be expected to send out a huge box of parts and let the customer keep throwing them at the machine until the problem goes away as this isn't practical. The manufacturer would have to test any part that was tried on the machine before returning them to their stock.
There is also no reason for a manufacturer to not warranty a part if it was not installed by the manufacturers service personnel, unless the manufacturer can prove the customer damaged the part.
When your machine is down, what is the manufacturer's priority? Will the manufacturer help you get your machine back on line by whatever means, or will they use the opportunity to get some income for their service/parts department? Whatever they do, it sends a strong message to the customer as to whose machine they will buy when they need more capacity.





RE: tips for buying a new laser system
As for warrantying the part, this is a little tricky but it can be done in a manner that's fair to all parties. For instance- if I sold someone a pneumatic cylinder, maybe I would require them to buy a new filter for their air manifold before I would warranty the cylinder.
Customers don't like to be taken advantage of. My customers share some of their experiences with me on their efforts to get replacement parts for their machines. Being told in a round about way that you're too unsafe and uneducated to be able to buy a part without having a factory rep install it is a slap in the face.
The manufacturer may gain some service revenue, but they're fools to think their machine sales wont suffer after the customer gets slapped in the face enough. The manufacturer needs to show that they are truly willing to partner with the customer.
been there, done that, seen it all..... I think I know what the customer expects and who the customer feels comfortable giving their money to.
Chris
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
How is the customer supposed to feel? Before the company's "safety" policy change, the customer would have their machine back on line in less than 24 hours, paying a few hundred for the part and overnight shipping. Now in the interest of "safety", they had to wait 2 weeks and spend a few thousand for a quick simple repair.
People remember these things when they need to buy more equipment. I wouldn't buy a machine from someone like that.
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
However, hey would be far more useful if you would actually name the guilty companies. It is quite difficult to actually gather information about the various laser options...this is the only resource I have really found. Not naming names doesn't really do us any good as at the end of the day we are forced to gather information almost exclusively from salesmen...and we all know how worthless that can be!
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
When we first started using Bystronic lasers, we were very impressed with their service, but the new management seems to have screwed that up. We also have Trumpf lasers, while I can't say their service has been without issue, I can say I don't remember ever having issues with having a technician forced on us when we needed parts.
We have been told that the parts that we were at one time able to get without a technician are suddenly "too dangerous and complicated", therefore, a technician is required.
Until Bystronic stops holding their customers hostage with replacement parts, my employer will buy their equipment elsewhere.
Bystronic has shot themselves in the foot. In addition to loosing machine sales, they will soon realize they are hurting their parts sales as their parts policy has created a demand for an alternate unrestricted source of parts. we are finding this demand is being met.
We are in the USA
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
I'm the poor slob trying to make parts with a Bystronic laser. With Bystronic, the technology is definitely there, it's the greed driven simple mistakes that are hurting everyone involved. You call that " Success in the north American market place"? Letting go of 20 or 30 people last year is success? (I miss Steve Charrier.... big mistake...)
There are 2 known independent service contractors here (who are excellent service people), what exactly is it that you find so interesting about this? Why are they here? Maybe they took an interest in helping their customers keep their lasers running, an interest that Bystronic does not make a priority.
You "welcome a personal discussion with any Bystronic owner or anyone considering the purchase of a laser system"?!?!?!?! How about a discussion with people who are not considering the purchase of a new laser system but looking for unrestricted access to replacement parts?
What "misconceptions" are you speaking of? Is it a misconception that Bystronic holds back parts?
Thank you for posting your contact info, I encourage everyone here to call Mr. Kyc and order a screen board for a 2800 watt machine. See what happens. If you get it, put it up on eBay for twice the price, it will sell right away.
What I find "interesting" is Mr. Kyc said absolutely nothing about Bystronics parts policy, which is pretty much the topic here.
Do you people at Bystronic make any effort at all to consider how you come across to the customer? Let me give you a hint- actions speak louder than words.
Here's another tip for Mr. Kyc and anyone else from Bystronic- unless you come here and announce a free and open parts policy, it would behoove you to stay out. Other than admitting your parts policy is extortion, there's nothing believable that you could say in response to this topic.
The do do is floating to the top, there's so much of it that you can't cover it all. If this is frustrating, all I can say is you get back what you dish out.
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
Does Bystronic hold back replacement parts? Yes or no?
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
I hate to see anyone get hurt. In the interest of safety I'd like to share some things I've learned about HV safety over the past years. This is by no means any kind of safety law. Rules and laws are up to your company safety officer. I'm just sharing what works for me and the rules I follow. Some safety rules get so out of hand that the simple basic things get lost in the mix. I think it's really important to focus on the simple dangers of the HV section. I repeat, this is what I go by, I take no responsibility. If what I'm about to say doesn't make any sense, then maybe you shouldn't go into the HV section. I welcome any criticism.
First off, If I ever believe for any reason that I've come into contact with an HV power source and received a shock, I plan on IMMEDIATELY getting my ass to a hospital. I'll get a ride or get an ambulance, I won't drive myself. When I get there, blood thinners, an EKG, blood chemistry work and maybe some Valium would be a good starting point. This is time critical.
As for going into the HV section- I will focus just on the high voltage, while the HV power might be secured, there still may be 220 VAC and or 24VDC control voltage present.
There are typically 2 items that heed to be secured in an HV section, the source of the HV, and any HV storage. There's 3 simple rules I follow when I secure the HV section so I can safely work on it.
rules:
1. Make sure the HV source is disabled. This is usually a transformer fed by 480 volts 3 phase.
2. Make sure the HV storage is discharged. This will typically be a large HV capacitor.
3. Make sure the HV storage capacitor stays discharged.
Very simple. Many people get 1 and 2 right but miss number 3.
What can go wrong? Lets look at number 1- You have to be absolutely sure that primary voltage WILL NOT make it to the HV transformer. I properly identify and shut off the breaker that feeds the HV transformer. You could lockout the machine but sometimes there is a need to go into the HV section with the control voltage active to do tests.
As for number 2- It's all about the grounding rod. Make sure it's mechanically and electrically sound. Look it over, give the wire a good yank to make sure it's not loose, then it hit with an ohmmeter to make sure it actually conducts to ground. The grounding rod is long for a reason, you hold the end that keeps your body parts as far away as possible from the HV danger. There is typically more than one grounding rod on a machine, ONLY the one that can reach the HV source and storage can make things safe, the other rods are good as a double check only. A common rule of thumb is to stay 10 mm for every 1,000 volts away from any live HV.
And number 3- Too many miss this one- Most of the capacitors are electrolytic. Just like the battery in your car, they WILL recover a charge after they've been run down. Typically there is a bank of resistors that will discharge this capacitor once the HV source is deactivated. If you hit that capacitor with the grounding rod and you get a discharge, those resistors are not working. The best thing to do here is to securely strap the output of the capacitor to ground. When these capacitors are shipped from the manufacturer, they have a wire connecting the output to ground for this very reason. Always assume a capacitor is charged.
I like to stay 4 or 5 steps away from getting hit by the high voltage. Sometimes when I'm rushing around I'll find myself a 1 or 2 steps from getting hit. When this happens I'll stop what I'm doing and reflect on how much I like living and make more of an effort to stay safe.
Now that I've shared what I feel is important, I'll share some of the other things I've come across over the years- Don't drink the electrolyte in the capacitors. Under certain conditions the ballast tubes can give off X-rays. Don't wrap HV cable around your neck. HV makes Ozone. Broken glass is sharp. Transformers are really heavy. Electrical parts can contain hazardous materials....... and so on and so on.....
If you decide to get out of bed in the morning, I in no way take any responsibility. I take none if you decide to stay in bed.......
Greedy lawyers, they make me crazy. Greedy anyone, same thing.
In addition to fixing machines, I train my customers on just about anything they need. Knowledge is safer than ignorance.
If anyone has any questions, feel free to contact me here or directly via the link in my signature.
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
Don't buy any machines unless you have free and total access to any replacement/service parts!
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
First question I ask when buying a machine is about access to parts and any basic tech info.
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
I've spoken with some new system owners. both bought a laser from Bystronic. One did as you suggested and was assured there will never be any restriction on any part whatsoever. The other new system owner was unable to get Bystronic to budge on their parts restrictions. Bystronic has no clue as to how they're coming across to the customer.
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
RE: tips for buying a new laser system
RE: tips for buying a new laser system