×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Emails to Seniors
2

Emails to Seniors

Emails to Seniors

(OP)
I have just run into problem with one of my manngers who warned me on the way I address the Senior managers within my organisation. I did point out exactly what was wrong with my emails to them. I think, he thinks I taking them lightly without enough necessary respect. On contrary, that has not been in my head. I normally write my messages starting with Hi ( 1st name), Hello ( 1st name) e.g

Hi Paul,

............
...........

Regards,
Mafuta.

I consider this warning as a serious issue against my career, the man went as far as suggesting that I should be considered for the course on emailing to be run by HR department. Surely, this sounds akward, an Engineer with years in the field.....not good at all!

Please advise the appropriate way of sending official emails especially when corresponding to someone very senior to you.

Cheers.

 

RE: Emails to Seniors

I don't see anything wrong or disrespectful in what you wrote.  If he weren't one of your managers, I'd tell him "Get a life!"  But since he is, you ought to find a way to sit down with him and discuss it.  There's a pretty good book called Crucial Conversations that would give you enough strategy on how to do this.

RE: Emails to Seniors

I work in engineering at a large industrial equipment company w/market cap >$40B.  I have not yet had a reason to correspond directly via email with vice presidents or the CEO, although I've had a drink or two with at least one VP as part of group of 15 or so at a company function.  

I do on occasion need to correspond with the director of engineering for my division, and in those cases I address him by his first name alone:

John,

----

Regards,
Isaac

We have had dozens of face-to-face meetings during my tenure at the company, but I doubt he'd remember my name if we passed on the street (although perhaps he would, since high-up managers tend to have a knack for that).  I would not start an email with "Hi John" unless the email was of a personal nature, which wouldn't happen w/this particular director - it's too informal a greeting for the office.  There's a director of engineering at another company who I occasionally correspond with, and I initiate my emails to him "Hi Bill," but they're personal in nature.

Even when addressing my peers, "Hi" seems too informal for work... except when dealing with those few overly-sensitive people who must be reminded that we're friends before I ask them to do their job, lest I get put on the back burner.
 

RE: Emails to Seniors

I think this question is very culture-dependent, so the only useful advice you'll get is from someone in your own country...I would sit down with your manager and sort out exactly what the issue is, and how to word the emails in the desired way.


 

RE: Emails to Seniors

Isaac,

Try signing off as "ivymike".  See if the dirtector follows e-tips.

- Steve

RE: Emails to Seniors

VERY culture-dependent, and not just country culture.

I've worked at one company in the US in which it was actually in the employee handbook -- "Courtesy titles required."

I had to address everyone as Mr. Jones, Mrs. Wilson, Doctor Bledsoe, etc... -- in writing, e-mail, and verbally.

More often, it's been quite informal -- but there are sticklers out there.

Good on ya,

Goober Dave

RE: Emails to Seniors

@TenPenny, I got the impression that the OP is someone who works in the US but previously lived in the UK long enough to pick up their spellings.
 

RE: Emails to Seniors

There are indeed sticklers, particularly those who work with, or have, PhDs.  Many of those demand being addressed as "Dr." even though one could rationally argue that such an address should only be used by those with a medical degree.  

Likewise, there are those with doctorates who eschew that title.  Obviously, your company has people who are sensitive, and it behooves you to talk to your manager and find out whose toes you've trod on, deal with them accordingly.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Emails to Seniors

sounds like there could be a language barrier there?  One thing you might be doing is telling someone what to do that is senior to your position.  Such as..."send me this file".  even saying "please send me this file" can sound like you are ordering them around.

One thing i try to do is always pose a question when writing an email to a senior person requesting something.  so i would say "could you please send me this file?"  that way it doesn't seem like an order.  might not be your issue at all, but just throwing that out there.

RE: Emails to Seniors

May be you shoud also add emotioncons to the email so that your reader would not take it negative :P hehe

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: Emails to Seniors

It depends on what your personal relationship is with these individuals.  For example, when I direct an email to our division's CEO I use his first name, not because we're peers.  Hardly, I'm 4 levels in the picking order down from him, but because I've known him since before he was even working for our company, when he was an R&D manager at one of our customers (it's a long story as to how he ended up where he is) back in the early 80's.  Now don't get me wrong, I don't show quite the same level of familiarity with other senior managers whom I don't have as long a relationship with, but despite the size of our corporation (and this seems to go all the way back to Germany and the parent organization) senior executives of Siemens are very open and friendly and seems to want people to deal with them on a first name basis, which I find refreshing.  They also seem to spurn titles, at least when dealing with employees, perhaps it a bit different when dealing with outsiders but inside the company, it's quite informal (even if corporate memos come in German first followed by the English translation).

Actually, our company is more concerned about the way we close an email then as to how we open one.  That is, we're required to include a complete signature which shows our full name, title, organization (including the corporate group), location (don't need a street address, but we do need the city, state and country) as well as our phone number.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
 

RE: Emails to Seniors

So your manager told you that you're not following the rules, but didn't tell you what the rules are?

And you are apparently afraid to as him what the rules are.

And your company had an internal course on how to email.

Hello Dilbert!

RE: Emails to Seniors

My tuppence worth.

It could be that your manager was told to have a word with you by his manager.

Maybe it is the content of the email. Some people, and these are usually graduates, tend to write emails as if they are talking face to face with a person, they use text talk and leave out punctuation. In addition the emails can be too waffley or conversely can be so concise that they are completely unclear.

Please remember that many senior managers are not as internet savvy as you may be.

My recommendation is take the course. You will be surprised at what you learn or are forced to remember. When writing emails, do not send them immediately - leave them a day and then re-read them. Include the spell checker on the email.

RE: Emails to Seniors

I hardly ever use salutations in email, particularly email addressed to individuals, because I figure that's covered by the "to" field.

That said, as others wiser have pointed out, only your internal email course will put the rules down for your particular firm.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Emails to Seniors

It does seem a bit petty, but I'd do the course.

To me the slightly informal salutation is fine, but I would expect to see 'reasonably proper' grammar, punctuation and spelling (depending on your relationship).

RE: Emails to Seniors

(OP)
Realy grateful for all the contributions. I had a discussion with my manager about the issue and sorted out.I think he perceived wrongly the correspondences between me and the two senior managers (he was copied), he said he noted some statements lacked necessary respect!One of them might have complained but he ddn't say so.
After all it's a minor issue and he took it differently! I'm new to this organisation, some ppl tend to be ???!! to new comers at this stage. Good enough, I'm used these situations.

Much appreciations....

RE: Emails to Seniors

And there am I in my bosses office this morning (he's the President of the company) telling him to F%$k off because he was slagging me on something.

Aaah the perception of doing the right thing at times....

drawn to design, designed to draw

RE: Emails to Seniors

Well I've never used the greeting (Hi or Hello), but I thought it was the done thing to just use the first name of the person you are addressing. Even if I've only been given someone's name to contact and I don't know them from Adam it's usually their first name only that goes on the email. If I need to call someone Mr then it needs a letter, not an email.

If I'm sending something to a generic info@... address then I treat it as if I am writing a letter, starting off with Dear Sirs.

Of course we could go back to what they did in my father's generation/place of employment and call colleagues you've known and worked with for 10 years by their surnames, no title, just the surname.

RE: Emails to Seniors

My boss was sensitive about reporting to his boss with copy to him. He wanted me to communicate to him directly on a regular basis.

Notes to upper mgt were reserved for serious issues particularly when asked.

RE: Emails to Seniors

Could be worse, I got banned from emailing folks outside of my dept without my manager approving the email first for a while.

So I dutifully sent all messages to him to review first.

Once a few projects etc. started to slip, and the response of 'I sent it to you for review' become my most commonly used phrase with him, the restriction was lifted.

I agree with others that don't use salutations, just the name.  I'll also tend to use 'gents' - something I picked up at my first employer in the UK - for group emails.  Just be careful there's no folks of the female persuasion on the distribution!

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Emails to Seniors

(OP)
I will drop the "Hi" and just address someone by only his/her first name. If that brings a problem to any one, one has to tell how does he/she wants me to address her/him specifically. I am allerged to " Sir" salutation, so no body should expect me call him "Sir" ,no matter what.
Different opinion?

RE: Emails to Seniors

in place of "Gents" I often use "Team" to open an email with a mixed-sex distribution.

 

RE: Emails to Seniors

Which is the kind of PC touchy feely management speak BS that puts me in a foul mood.  Maybe it's unfair but something about using that word in that way in work situations just raises my hackles.

I'll use 'All' or something for mixed distribution.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Emails to Seniors

there's usually a pretty healthy dose of irony involved when I start an email with "Team," but I doubt the recipients notice (many of them don't recognize their own counterproductive/anti-team behavior even if it's pointed out).
 

RE: Emails to Seniors

For the normal email traffic I just use the persons first name:

Bob,

blah blah blah.

Thanks,

-Kirby

If I'm writing to someone I haven't corresponded with before I Go a bit more formal:

Mr. Smith,

blah blah blah.

Best Regards,

-Kirby

If they keep up the formality so do I.  If they respond back using just my first name I switch to using just their first name.  

I would recommend thaking the email course to learn the practice in your corporate culture.  

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

RE: Emails to Seniors

KENAT--you're asking for trouble with "gents".  You never know what kind of she-folk might sneak onto the distribution list.  Some she-folk don't give a crap, but some do, and some he-folk take it upon themselves to give a crap on behalf of the she-folk.  (And "gents and lady" runs the risk of pissing off the lady on the grounds of unduly singling her out.)  Depending on where you're from, "Folks" might work.

I still like leaving the salutation out entirely, sez I for the third or fourth time.  There's a perfectly good "To:" field taking care of that.  If people don't know why they're getting the email and need a little context, then a "dear supplier" or "dear implementation team" or something specific like that might help.  (I do like signing the email at the bottom even though there's a perfectly good "From:" field, because that way they don't think maybe I pressed "send" by mistake.)

Except that I personally am allergic to "dear".  I get away with a lot of informality, so I say something like "Hallo implementation team" or something only slightly sarcastic like "esteemed implementation team".  However, as I said, I usually use no salutation, which avoids all kinds of problems.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Emails to Seniors

Far be it from me to deliberately poke the bear, I shall cease and desist immediately from using gents in all male electronic mail.winky smile

I'm quite happy with my use of it however HgTX's points should be considered by anyone else considering risking using such a term.

I sometimes leave of the salutation but somehow it seems wrong so I like to put something.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Emails to Seniors

Quote:

....the course on emailing to be run by HR department
which about sums up HR.
The usual thing when Investors in People  come round (in the UK) is to discover management has called them in because management think the workforce are not communicating properly etc and the usual discovery, it appears, is that it is management who are not communicating properly. All very natural but a bit of a surprise to management.
In the same way, emails are generally considered quite informal.
When writing a letter I always use formal address "Attention Dr. XYZ, Technical Director,
Dear Dr. XYZ.

In an email, and it has taken me a while to get used to this, I would simply sayd "Hi Dick, here's the info you wanted."
Every so often I will lapse back into formal salutations and people think I am stuffy.

So the people who need to be on this HR E-mail course are MANAGEMENT.
They need to be told: Its an email, stupid.
This is the global convention on emails. They are quick and informal and should be brief.
The solution is not to send people on email courses but to imply hand down a direction that says all communication should be by inter-office memo.
Memo:
To:
Managing Director.
Subject: Restoration of Gas lighting in the plant.

On a happy note, pardon the pun, you are not alone:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/7960068/One-in-20-people-reprimanded-for-inappropriate-emails.html

Next weeks HR course is on text messages.
Dear Mr Manager,
WTF? This is 4U.
Sorry, it doesn't go.

Of course HR will never identify who really needs training. Not when it is a Management Vs the rest situation and let's face it, managers are generally less computer literate and more status concious than the rest of us.

 
  

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Emails to Seniors

It all comes down to the golden rule; those with the gold make the rules.  But, at the very least, ask for a list of these sacred rules. Then you can (a) follow them or (b) use them as a sort of challenge to see how many you can break in a single e-mail.  Don't ask which course I'd follow.

RE: Emails to Seniors

It does depend on culture and situation. We have Indians who always use Dear Bob.... whereas we in the UK would just use Bob... For groups of people the unwritten convention is to use All..  If you're resigning with no intention of returning then start your resignation email to the manager with Your Effluence...

Tata  

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources