Usefull copyright material on line
Usefull copyright material on line
(OP)
I just came across virtually all the ASME Y14 series stds posted on line. Also the global DRM.
Now I'm pretty sure this isn't' meant to be freely available to anyone with an internet connection for no charge.
I already forwarded a link to the site to ASME if they want to take action.
Also, as much as I'd like to I'm resisting the urge to save or print a copy of it (at least the ones I don't more or less legitimately have).
I'm also resisting the urge to share the website with others that may find it useful.
Am I just being too darn ethical for my own good here? Most here normally take the high road - at least on this forum, am I for once living up to this?
Now I'm pretty sure this isn't' meant to be freely available to anyone with an internet connection for no charge.
I already forwarded a link to the site to ASME if they want to take action.
Also, as much as I'd like to I'm resisting the urge to save or print a copy of it (at least the ones I don't more or less legitimately have).
I'm also resisting the urge to share the website with others that may find it useful.
Am I just being too darn ethical for my own good here? Most here normally take the high road - at least on this forum, am I for once living up to this?
Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?





RE: Usefull copyright material on line
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Shuuuush. He doesn't want to get a good name you know.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services
www.infotechpr.net
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
You did the right thing and the only thing you could possibly do here.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Usefull copyright material on line
I happen to be a young engineer just starting out and it often tends to be difficult to tell if th standard has the information I need or not. Since technical book stores are a thing of the past, this tends to be a good way to preview the merchandise before I buy it.
Over the past 6 months I have easily purchased approximatley $5000 worth of standards. Approximatley half of which I previewed before purchase.
Once I'm sure the standard has what I need I have no problem paying for them and deleting the pirate copy (I like the bound hardcopy and the simplicity of document control that goes with it).
You have indeed done the ethical thing, however your move is an excersise in futility, due the foriegn repositories of all engineering standards readily found online.
A question properly stated is a problem half solved.
Always remember, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it!
http://www.ap-dynamics.ab.ca/
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
There is no garuntee that the files have not been tampered with by the unscrupulous (another very good reason I like bound harcopy's direct from the publisher)
A question properly stated is a problem half solved.
Always remember, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it!
http://www.ap-dynamics.ab.ca/
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Sounds like your being ethical (on the high road), however I wouldn't worry about forwarding the sites to anyone else, if they wanted them and knew anything about searching the net they could find it off their own steam.
I think you would be forgiven for taking a copy yourself, while it would be unethical, truth of the matter is that I can't hold it against you, as I know I have at least one burnt copy of DVD, and so dose half the world. However if you were to use this new found source of info for more than personal use but to gain a commercial advantage, well that is a different ball game.
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
<ducking and running>
Have a good weekend.
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Even if we think we are justified in stealing copyright (I feel Microsoft still owes me for products that failed to deliver) still should not promote that idea here as it is illegal and brings this site into disrepute and undermines us if we complain about others stealing our copyright.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Usefull copyright material on line
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
I know it is wrong, but there still seems to be some poetic justice in setting up a thief in that way.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Usefull copyright material on line
I get your point, but how poetic is it to the people killed through no fault of their own but being unlucky enough to walk into a building designed by a thief?
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Regards
Pat
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RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Some original maps have deliberate faults such as an extra road included where there is none. It helps the owners identify fraudulent use of their maps by people too lazy to do their own surveys.
The addition of false roads, a cul de sac somewhere in a housing estate for example, is relatively harmless since no one will be looking for something that isn't there. The lazy ones have no idea which roads are real or not and include them all.
That won't work here because the site is offering the original material and not alternatives which would have no value.
But I assume that such organisations must be alert to piracy and must have some mechanisms to protect themselves. Sadly, there are not enough Kenat's around for that to be sufficient by itself, there will always be those who will happily use pirated material.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
If they did put out a falsified document, it would be widely distributed not to a single individual but to a great many and would soon challenge the distribution of the legitimate standard. Most people don't pay for standards (regardless of ethics)- never have. Let's keep the discussion within the realm of reality.
Even if you go into the large OEMs of automobiles, aircraft, etc. you will find that they all use each others documents. You will also notice that each OEMs methods and notation closely matches that of the competition. As a result, products are safer and the public good is served. I'm not saying that their actions are entirely ethical, but that's how the western world works.
There is a certain naivete in this thread. The truth is that copyright laws often work against the greater good of society.
Pragmatically, what is required is reform of these national organizations. Instead of charging fees they don't need, make the information publicly available for the greater good of society and eliminate barriers for small business. A public-private partnership should be explored to truly democratize these organizations.
In their current form, they represent a market failure!
Wouldn't working towards putting the information in the hands of the people be the truly ethical action? After all, the experts put their time and effort towards these standards in the spirit of industry wide cooperation.
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
They will make copies so that several individuals within that organisation can work together on the same project.
They will also copy portions to send to suppliers if the supplier has to meet a standard.
I think this all comes under the heading of fair use, or fairly close to it.
Downloading the entire document without ever having purchased an original is piracy and cannot be condoned here in a public forum.
I have been around quite a while and worked for quite a few companies and even served on a few standards committees.
I think my experience in this regard is pretty normal so it is far from naive to expect it happens like that.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
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RE: Usefull copyright material on line
They kept a register and operated like a library with anyone who needed the standard signing out a copy and singing it back in.
If anyone needed a copy already out then they would chase it up but some people ended up with the standard on almost permanent "loan" from engineering resources.
Of course people would take first generation copies but not for distribution.
I got choked off pretty severely when I asked for a photocopy because the original was out somewhere. Now you may argue that your organisation has paid for the knowledge not a particular copy and therefore internal copying is OK. In the end the only true guidance is that given by the standard and the terms and conditions of purchase.
On the other hand, many standards have a limited recommended life and are frequently revised so new copies do have to be purchased every four-five years or so, in theory.
The reasons for new issues isn't simply revenue generation and the changes are rarely just for the sake of it.
But, the production of a standard costs money. It should be paid for else we may find a diminishing number of organisations paying the costs for trivial updates and a for standards that no longer can be maintained current or valuable.
In the end you get what you pay for.
If you want standards that have value then they have to be paid for.
Photocopies are convenient and we can always justify making a copy for expediency but I bet few people destroy the copy when done. Though in a few years it will be out of date anyway.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Yes, codes and standards can be expensive to purchase. I don't always buy the most recent standard because frankly, I just can't afford to buy every one of them; however, when I reference a standard, I will state the one I am referencing (that is paid for and legitimate). I do the same with software. All software used on my computers is legitimately purchased and has appropriate authorization. I expect that of those who read my drivel and pay for it...it would be disengenuous of me to do otherwise for others.
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
As far as I know, the problem torrent-vs-copyright is not resolved yet, at least in Europe.
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
On the commercial level there are companies that down load standards for free. It is this crazy situation that someone how came about due to the uni's access to all standards for a small fee per year. So you can log on and download and print the standards if you are a member of the uni, which a lot of employed people are these days.
Ron,
I am sure it is all good drivel.
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
My last employer, a fairly large (5,000 person) firm, refused to purchase the standards for our use.
Consequently, it was sometimes difficult to check construction phase submittals. Although I never sealed any specs at that company, it would have made me nervous to be sealing something that referred to a standard I had never read.
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Let's take as an example the system of scientific journal publication. Scientists, mostly academics and other people whose salaries are paid principally by the taxpayer, generate new knowledge and research and then write a paper. They submit it to their peers, also paid from the public purse, who act as reviewers and referees. The work is then published, and the copyright goes to whom? The PUBLISHING COMPANY! Who subscribes to the journals? Principally libraries, funded from the public purse! If an academic requires copies of their own published work to facilitate teaching, the public has to pay the publishing company for the reprints. The net result is a flow of money from the public purse to the publishing company, in return for more restrictive access to the information which the public has already paid for! It's a system which made sense in the days when the physical journal volumes in a library were essential because they were the only game in town, but in the internet age such a system makes no sense.
I agree that standards such as building codes, the ASME pipe and pressure vessel codes, ASTM materials standards etc., which have the force of law because they protect the public safety, should be paid for out of the public purse. Otherwise, only the ethical pay for them, while access to information necessary for public protection is less widely dispersed than it could or should be.
While the public purse does NOT pay for the publishing of these standards, their copyright needs to be respected. If it isn't, the organizations which fund their ongoing maintenance and development will be deprived of the funds they need to ensure that this critical work is done. This, despite the fact that a large fraction of the work of actually developing these standards is done by volunteers...
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Kenat, rereading what I posted, I almost feel like I should redflag it. Hopefully everyone will read it knowing the author had tongue firmly in cheek, and the intended sentiment was more along the lines of "good on ya". I too don't like paying for standards that seem to get revised for trivial reasons, but that discussion has been held elsewhere, and the overwhelming opinion of smarter people than me is that the revisions are generally not trivial.
RE: Usefull copyright material on line
Though re-reading my OP I could saw it might come across as gratuitous back patting.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?