Interviewing while still employed
Interviewing while still employed
(OP)
For reasons that probably deserve a thread of their own, I've decided it's time to leave my current employer.
I had an interview a few weeks ago, and decided it was best to take the entire day off (using vacation time) to avoid going in with the negativity and frustration I often feel when leaving my current job. The interview went very well and I am fairly confident I will get an offer, however I will likely need to go meet with them again before everything is finalized (another day off...). On top of this, I have an upcoming phone interview with an out-of-town employer. If this were to go well I assume they would require me to travel out to meet them in person (ie more time off required).
I am afraid I have already aroused suspicion from my boss and when it does come time to resign he will look back on these days off here and there and realize I had been looking elsewhere for a good month or so. When I resign he may be put in a tight spot due to the current state of things. If I told him now I was looking elsewhere he could already be looking for a replacement, however if neither of these opportunities work out I will be in a tight spot (I'd rather be employed and looking for a job then unemployed and looking for a job, obviously).
I guess I just need some general advice. Does it make any sense to warn them of my impending departure to avoid burning bridges? How do you manage taking interviews elsewhere while still working a job? Should I just give my two weeks notice and free myself of my current job (financially not a problem, I just don't want to lose negotiating leverage or look like someone who might just up and quit at any moment)?
Any advice is appreciated.
I had an interview a few weeks ago, and decided it was best to take the entire day off (using vacation time) to avoid going in with the negativity and frustration I often feel when leaving my current job. The interview went very well and I am fairly confident I will get an offer, however I will likely need to go meet with them again before everything is finalized (another day off...). On top of this, I have an upcoming phone interview with an out-of-town employer. If this were to go well I assume they would require me to travel out to meet them in person (ie more time off required).
I am afraid I have already aroused suspicion from my boss and when it does come time to resign he will look back on these days off here and there and realize I had been looking elsewhere for a good month or so. When I resign he may be put in a tight spot due to the current state of things. If I told him now I was looking elsewhere he could already be looking for a replacement, however if neither of these opportunities work out I will be in a tight spot (I'd rather be employed and looking for a job then unemployed and looking for a job, obviously).
I guess I just need some general advice. Does it make any sense to warn them of my impending departure to avoid burning bridges? How do you manage taking interviews elsewhere while still working a job? Should I just give my two weeks notice and free myself of my current job (financially not a problem, I just don't want to lose negotiating leverage or look like someone who might just up and quit at any moment)?
Any advice is appreciated.





RE: Interviewing while still employed
In terms of interviews, I think what you are doing is perfectly acceptable. I disagree with those who feign sickness to attend an interview - that's definitely unethical and possibly unlawful too.
----------------------------------
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Interviewing while still employed
You are letting your irrational guilt over leaving your current employer cloud your mind. People take random days off for any number of personal reasons such as meeting with a divorce lawyer, paternity hearings, court appearance for child custody, traffic violations or to obtain a temporary restraining order against a neighbor, to visit sick relatives in distant places, to fulfill court-ordered community service, to attend parenting classes, etc.
All you really need to tell them is that you are dealing with a personal situation where you are not able to give much advance notice, but that you would let them know as soon as possible of the days when you need to be absent. If they press for information, tell them that it's very personal and that you would rather discuss things when you know more details and leave it at that.
If it helps, choose a situation and think about what would be required if that were the case. In paternity cases for instance, you'd need a day to meet and hire and attorney and explain the circumstances of your case (interview #1). Then you would need another day during negotiations to provide a DNA sample, (interview #2). If it got to the point of court, you'd need 2-3 days for that (overnight trip to a distant interview).
Don't lie about where you are going and what you are doing. I'm suggesting that you create a situation in your own mind that could be a reasonable alternate explanation for your absence to calm your fears that your boss is a psychic and knows exactly why and where you are going. He doesn't know and you don't need to say.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: Interviewing while still employed
I've given 1 month notices the last two times I quit without any repercussions whatsoever.
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Interviewing while still employed
RE: Interviewing while still employed
RE: Interviewing while still employed
A good, reasonable boss expects no more, knows that people change jobs, and will not hold this against you. If he does, then he is unprofessional and you are doing good by leaving.
If you have reasonably decent relationship with your boss, he might want to know about your vacation time. Heck, I always ask about coworker's time off - "Hey, whatcha got goin' on? Getting new countertops installed?". If you respond that it's personal, he should let it go as friends would. If your relationship is poor and he insists, continue to insist that you cannot say. If he asks if it's an interview (only a real jerk would ask this), THEN he might deserve a straight out lie. If you think he might ask, then be prepared and practice saying this while keeping eye contact.
Really, don't sweat this. This happens everyday.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
He can't figure out any other reason why you aren't taking "sickies", those days some employees feel they should take off for no good reason at all and represent a holiday equivalent.
Do not feel guilty. You owe no more loyalty or responsibility to the company than you can expect them to show you (usually nil).
Suppose you let on you are considering other jobs.
And now suppose you don't get the offer you want at this time.
Chances are you will see your own job being advertised and fellow workers who can't wait for you to go so they can apply.
Depending on the country you are in they may even just let you go.
The alternative is that they know they will have a job to replace you and in which case, probably without letting on they know, they will try to sweeten the pot for you. Indeed, they may even counter offer if you accept a job and hand in your notice, but don't be fooled.
As often as not these are just holding measures till they can line up someone who will take your job at less than your old salary and then let you go.
That you looking for a new job is no ones business but your own.
Your first responsibility is to you and your family. Your employer usually comes a long way down the "need to know" list and don't expect your sensitivity to be reciprocated. They will happily let go long term employees for no good reason except to say "responsibility to the shareholders" even if it is some well recognised vendetta by some useless manager somewhere.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Never put in notice until you have a written offer. Nothing else means anything. I have even seen written offers that were withdrawn.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Don't ever feel guilty (I have trouble myself). They would lay you off in a heartbeat if things went downhill.
If you still worry about taking the time off try to schedule interviews on Monday's or Friday's. Make it look like you are really taking a vacation.
But I have never had trouble taking days off in the middle of the week. My employers were always surprised I was leaving.
Some employers will make an extra effort to interview after hours. Never hurts to ask. It helps if you can leave an hour early.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: Interviewing while still employed
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Depends where you are.
They make an offer which, if it is accepted as it stands, gives you a reasonable case to claim you have a contract once you have ensured they have received it.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interviewing while still employed
That is, in the UK, (and before the down turn) in the branch of civil engineering I know, people were always looking for other jobs and having interviews without a thought to the feelings of their bosses. It's a fairly 'promiscuous' profession where everyone will eventually work with everyone else and we all end up with probably 2 or 3 degrees of separation at most from any other person in this field. So long as we work our notice (generally one month) no-one gets upset. It's a job, even if it is a profession, if you get what I mean.
In the US, on the other hand, it seems you can be escorted off the premises the moment you hand in your resignation, but people still feel some deep responsibility to their employer.
Don't forget, right now it's generally a buyers market, with employers having the upper hand. Unless you're incredibly specialised I can't see there'll be a lack of suitable applicants once your old job's advertised.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Escorting off the premises immediately is nothing new. We had a "Black Tuesday" in 1986, where those that had immediate layoff were given 1 hour to clean out their cubes. Their severance would be mailed to them, end of story.
This brings up the interesting divergence between the notion of an employer firing you willy nilly, while you, particularly if you're PE, has to maintain relatively high standard of ethics. So, the notion of you slinking off in the night to a new place of employment does have a ring of less than full transparency. At the same time, there was a portion of the group that was on "layoff notice" because they were still needed to finish their projects. So, obviously, the company took advantage of the engineers' professionalism, while showing none themselves.
The "say nothing until the last possible moment" sentiment is perhaps justified, when directed to the nebulous "company" but oughtn't be de rigueur when it comes to your direct manager, particularly if your relationship is fairly good. Obviously, if your relationship involves poison pills, or daily rants, or the like, then the sooner it ends. the better for you, at any rate.
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Interviewing while still employed
-Kirby
Kirby Wilkerson
Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
However, once you find a job, you should make every effort to make the transition smooth. Give them a reasonable amount of notice (the length depends on your particular job) and make every effort to coordinate with whomever will be taking over your responsibilities.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
However, it is a rule of thumb, and there are exceptions.
When I moved from the UK to the US I was fairly open with my my direct management about it for a few months in advance. However, I didn't give a formal resignation letter until I had all the visa etc. sorted. This was in a place where I had a good relationship with my my chain of report all the way up to the owner (the CFO wasn't in my chain of report - he was the only person whose nose was bent out of shape).
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interviewing while still employed
I know one guy that works as hard as he can before he quits because he wants them to notice when he is gone. He likes to brag that they needed 3 people to replace me.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
I am so happy that there are no hard feelings. These next 2 weeks will be weird enough.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Why do you think the following is true:
"It is always easier to find a job when you have a job. You are just more attractive when you are employed (Posted by HDS)"
Does it imply that the ones on the job are more capable than the ones looking for job?
Your comments are highly appreciated.
Frank
Calgary, Alberta
RE: Interviewing while still employed
It is a natural conclusion.
If your potential employer were making redundancies he'd like to think he'd let only the bottom of the heap go.
The reality his he will probably let the real workers go and keep his pet brown-nosers.
But I'd suggest it does mean that finding a job when unemployed is going to be tougher than when you are employed.
It would be more nearly fair in an ideal world than the real world.
But life isn't fair.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interviewing while still employed
My thinking has been more related to maintaining a good relationship with my current boss rather than worrying about ethics towards the company. As many have said, they/he would let me go without prior notification if they were force to by their management.
Frank, I think employers look at someone who is unemployed and say to themselves "Ok...either he was fired, laid off or just up and quit without a better job to go to" (unless you're a new grad). People could be unemployed for any number of reasons but you will never know the entire story before hiring someone, and it may not be worth the risk when comparing you to someone who still has a job.
Also, from an employee standpoint, it is obviously easier to negotiate a better salary when you don't look desperate and willing to take anything (which you might if you are not employed).
Personally I would love to give my two weeks notice right now. I'm young, have no dependents, and would love a solid month off to go travel for a bit. On top of this I am absolutely fed up and it's affecting my personal life. However as everyone has suggested I think it's better to hang on a bit longer while I solidify my next move...
...then I'll try and delay a start date and go travel for a month or so ;)
RE: Interviewing while still employed
(Unless married, when all those projects around the house, keeping up with the housework while she's at work... are your full time occupation - though you'll be reprimanded if you point out doing all this interferes with you job search.)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Firstly pretty much everyone over here is on one months notice and virtually everyone in a key position would be somewhere between 3 – 6 months. It is also not difficult to find good skilled people looking for work.
Also anyone looking to move, unless to relocate or the like for their own reasons would probably be looking for a 10% raise, based on a salary above today's market value. People looking for a job will probably settle for a lower salary.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Interviewing while still employed
I think long term unemployment is different or even being out of the profession for a long time even if gainfully employed, both rightly or wrongly are seen as being out of touch and long term unemployment can be seen as lazy.
As with so many things there is very little that is black or white and most things are a shade of grey and we all make judgement calls based on our beliefs rather than definitive criteria.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
http://
http:/
http://www
http://w
http
It's only when things hopefully pick up that there'll be the usual cries of 'skills shortage!!', at which point, thousands of engineers who remain unemployed or who left the industry will shake their collective heads and sigh.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
After thinking about the employed vs unemployed candidate and which might have the advantage, I have changed my mind from my initial gut reaction which was employed interviewee has the advantage.
From the interviewee standpoint, being employed at the time gives you the luxury of being choosy about the job offer. It gives you a psychological incentive to counter-offer a salary that is a bit above what you would actually accept. Being unemployed for an extended period can make you more over-eager to accept a low offer, or even make you a little desperate for validation of your own self worth. Even if you do not feel desperate, I think a good interviewer can smell it. But is that a disadvantage? I don't think so.
I thought back to when I was an employer during the height of the dot com boom and given two candidates who were equally qualified, I would most likely have offered the unemployed candidate the job first. In my line of business, there would have been a significant training period for anyone new, whether they were working as the lead guy for my competitor or working in a completely different field or not working at all. In fact, the guy working for my competitor would probably have to unlearn some bad behavior and would be more resistant to changing his methodology.
I also would have considered that the unemployed candidate would accept a lower offer. As far as a skill set, if you have someone who is smart, trainable, quick to learn, and eager to fit in, it does not matter if they have been unemployed and using their skills to search for a job or earn cash on the side to supplement their government check. I would pick that over someone who is cocky, jaded, too comfortable in their current job and comes in demanding a $10,000 signing bonus.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: Interviewing while still employed
They do it because they don't want employee going to trunk of his car and coming back with M-16 and extra magazines.
In our company they don't even let you clean your desk.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
I know of one company that makes you leave immediately and stops paying you immediately. They figure if your new job doesn't start for a few weeks, they can get a little revgenge by making you go that long without a paycheck.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
He was an illustator and painted the idyllic Edwardian country garden scenes for their tin boxes for Christmas.
It was only after he had gone that they discovered his last illustration had been rather rude. In the grass and bushes at one side were two dogs copulating.... a careful scrutiny revealed a lot more "naughty" scenes which would upset the biscuit eaters of Britain and they had to recall the biscuits.
They didn't get them all and this particular tin is now a collectors item with some value.
Never mind employees sabotaging the company, what about a woman scorned? A colleague was discovered by his wife to be having an affair. She accessed his company laptop and reformatted the hard drive for him. She neglected to back up his documents.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Might be grounds for the company to sue her for destruction of company property that she had illegally gotten into.
Now if she had done it to his laptop, that would be different.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Charges against hubby:
> Unsecured laptop
> Probably possessing company information that shouldn't even be on his laptop
> Failure to back up documents
> Being an idiot
> Getting caught, but that's arguably an outcome of being an idiot
The second item on the list is ABSURDLY COMMON! My previous employer reported losing 50,000 employee data records because some jack*ss in payroll had unauthorized files on his laptop, and it got stolen. Luckily, it appears that the knucklehead that stole simply pawned it, and the data got wiped along the way, probably as a means of obscuring the laptop's origin.
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Interviewing while still employed
----------------------------------
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Interviewing while still employed
-Kirby
Kirby Wilkerson
Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.
RE: Interviewing while still employed
Even a one day cricket test match requires a bit more subtlety. Overseas fixtures of any sport are a challenge.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Interviewing while still employed
RE: Interviewing while still employed
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com