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Structural Analyis Software Recommendation
2

Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

(OP)
I would appreciate if anyone who currently uses any type of structural analysis software could provide some reviews and/or suggestions for a reliable software package that I can pitch to my company.

We are a multi-disciplinary engineering firm (50 employees) and our structural needs range from the design of small buildings and frames to large storage tanks and pipelines.  Any software package has to be versatile enough to handle a large variety of designs and include all the major building materials (wood, concrete, and steel).  

We currently use a very dated version of RAM Advanse but given the pace that technology has progressed, I would like to explore options for whatelse might be out there.

I have heard of the Risa software and some of the other big names but would like to hear from people who use the software before looking into it too far.

Thank you.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

You just opened the floodgates!!!
I vote STAAD

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

RISA is cheap and has top notch tech support if you pay for maintenance.

 

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

We have STAAD and RISA.  Both are great, but RISA is the most bang for the buck.  And RISA tech support is great.   

http://www.FerrellEngineering.com

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

RISA 3D.

DaveAtkins

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I vote RISA 3D.  So far its:

STAAD 1
RISA 4

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

RISA is dirt simple to use so it is my favorite.  A newbie can pick it up and be able to do most things in a few hours.

SAP can be good for complex larger models, but it sometimes it is too smart for its own good so I tend to stay away if I can avoid it.  

Never used STAAD  

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Rack one up for SAP.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

ETABS/SAP. I try to stay away from RAM (Bentley) products except Ram Concept. Personally never used RISA.

We are Virginia Tech
Go HOKIES

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

(OP)
I downloaded the Risa3D demo and almost thought "I must be doing something wrong because this is so easy to use".  

Do you find the STAAD to be of a higher caliber than Risa3D?  For instance, is the Risa software too arcade like or just as good of a calculation tool?

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Well I learned on STAAD and have been using it for a pretty long time. I did recently check out Visual Analysis. It seemed a little awkward, but then again, I've been using STAAD a long time now.  

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

(OP)
Also, what is the benefits of either in terms of compatibility with AutoCAD or Revit?   

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

RAM SS can export to CAD.

RAM SS is great for relatively simple buildings with a lot of repetition. It does have its limitations, though.

Risa is simple to use and can carry out a rigorous 2nd order analysis (required for Appendix A of AISC).  It also permits you to set up detailing templates for concrete members. Haven't doen wood design in RISA, though..

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Will you need to do finite element analysis?  Will you need to do seismic design?

My suggestion is that you download a trial version of the software.  SAP 2000 v. 14, RISA, have trial versions for free download.  They also have excellant tutorials to learn the software.  Unfortunately Staad does not have a free download.

http://www.csiberkeley.com/support_downloads.html

http://www.risatech.com/forms/demo_request.html

If you need to do FEA and seismic I would recomment SAP2000.


DHK

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I have used Algor, STAAD XX, STAAD-Pro,mTab-Stress, and RISA 3D.  I currently use RISA 3D.  Older versions of STAAD were very "buggy". After STAAD-Pro it got better.

Agree that tech support at RISA is excellent.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

RISA 3D hands down.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto:  KISS
Motivation:  Don't ask

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Is there anything out there as powerful as RAM Structural System for the design of repetitive, multistory buildings?

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I worked with SAP, ETABS, AxisVM and Robot. Currently I am using STAAD. So far, my experience is that construction industry (in North America though) doesn't  have a good structural analysis software. Let me elaborate.
I think STAAD fails in all aspects (user interface, available elements, solver, meshing, speed, stability, help,etc...) - I would recommend to avoid at any cost. SAP is better, good solver, but very poor UI,  meshing capabilities and reporting. Autodesk bought Robot, looks ok however no proper documentation - very frustrating. Haven't tried RAM or RISA.
Honestly, I am envy at our colleagues in auto or aerospace industry who can utilize general purpose FE like Abaqus or Nastran.
  

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Chalk up another vote for RISA.

Abusement:  I haven't personally used it but RISA has a floor module you can use for multistory applications, automatic load generation etc. Works hand in hand with RISA 3D. I have a couple colleagues who use the program and have heard no complaints.  

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

sasa2k - You can use Abaqus in your work.  Theres nothing to prevent that except the $75,000 price tag.  Unless you want to lease and that runs about $25,000 per year.  Also it has a very robust manual to help learn the software.


Our offices make use of a variety of general purpose FEA programs, such as SAP2000, GT-STRUDL, STAAD, MIDAS, and many more specific use software programs.  Overall, we find that more and more staff migrate to SAP.  My own preference is GT-STRUDL.


 

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.
 

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

OK, at the risk of high-jacking the OP's thread, can I put a different slant on the original question:

Of the various structural analysis / design programs that people have advocated, is anyone using them in conjunction with a high-end 3D plant design system (such as Intergraph SmartPlant 3D) for mechanical / process driven design, such as oil & gas plants, mining projects, etc?

How do you go about keeping the engineering analysis / design model "synchronised" with the 3D plant model, as the plant layout "evolves"? Do you import / export via a neutral file format such as DXF (shudder!), CIM-Steel, SDNF, etc, or do any of them support "live" interaction with the multi-discipline plant-wide 3D model and database?

How does the process support multiple iterations of "round trips" for design iteration. (Most of the packages I have seen are sort of OK for member size changes as long as the frame "topology" doesn't change, but how does it cope when the mechanical engineers make significant geometry changes to the structure to accommodate design changes for their plant and equipment?)

Any comments welcome - I fear I may have stirred up a hornet's nest here!

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Quote:

Honestly, I am envy at our colleagues in auto or aerospace industry who can utilize general purpose FE like Abaqus or Nastran.
LOL, it's quite silly to compare Abaqus and other high end FEA programs to programs that sell for only a few thousand dollars!

Besides, when would most structural engineers use 99% of the features that Abaqus has, but RISA doesn't?  Almost never, and the higher end programs require much, much longer learning curves in my experience.  A halfway experience guy can be up and running with RISA or SAP2000 in just a few hours.

To the OP: Probably RISA-3D.  SAP2000 if you think you'll want to do much beyond simple small displacement second-order analyses.   

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Quote:

Also it has a very robust manual to help learn the software.
Do I sense sarcasm there?  Last time I used Abaqus, the manual was badly needed!

On a somewhat related note, I tried to learn Ansys a few months ago and started going through the tutorials.  After 3 hours, I still couldn't get a basic beam in there with a point load on it.  Then I got distracted and did something else, LOL.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I like SAP and Risa... more frequently using the latter for run of the mill designs. The high end FEM programs are OK for automotive and aerospace stuff, I suspect, because with automotive, if you save a dollar in the production and you make a million of them, then you have directly added $1M to profit.  In aerospace stuff, you are looking to minimise weight.

Most of the stuff I do is 'meatball'... the cost savings is in the ease of connection or fabrication.  If I spend an additional half-hour to analyse a connection to save a pound... unless I have a 'kazillion' of them, there is no advantage.

Dik

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

RISA 3D.

Agree with Ron on the older STAAD versions - very buggy.  Haven't used it recently so it may be much better today.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I would reccomend Scia Engineer. It's very popular in europe and is getting more popular here in the US. It offers most of the higher end features of SAP and Robot with a much better interface and report generation capabilites.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I would say, if it's multi-disciplinary and versatile what you need, SAP2000 is the answer. You have almost the full versatility of highend FEA programs, but can use it for pretty much everything without it taking three hours to analyze a simple model.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I don't know anything about structural software, so it is not likely that I am going to provide you the answers you seek.

Is there a software package which can accept 3D co-ordinates, 3D loads and come up with a complete and accurate analysis of the structure, including unsupported length (buckling length) of individual members?  I do not believe that there is.  If I am wrong, please let me know.

BA

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Quote:

Is there a software package which can accept 3D co-ordinates, 3D loads and come up with a complete and accurate analysis of the structure, including unsupported length (buckling length) of individual members?

If you do a linear analysis  you need to do your own assessment of buckling loads, which you can either do with a separate buckling mode analysis, or include geometric non-linearity effects in the analysis.

If you do a complete non-linear analysis, including allowance for material and geometric non-linearity, and with proper conservative material stiffness values, there is no reason why any 3D analysis package should not come up with the right answers, providing the package allows sufficient control so you know what it is doing.  Whether that is the best way to do it is another matter.

 

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/
 

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Thanks, Doug.  I think I understand most of what you said.  Why would it not be the best way to do it?  Does it still require engineering judgment, no matter what the software spits out?

BA

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Yes, you still need engineering judgement in setting the material properties, and assessing the output.  Probably more judgement needed than when using tried and true simplified methods.

Also you would need to do separate analyses for serviceability and ultimate checks, and maybe another one for collapse as well, so the question is, is it worth the effort?

Re-reading the question, if you were asking if there is a package where you can just plug in the geometry and the loads, and let the software set materials properties etc, and rely on the design that is spat out at the end, then I'd agree the answer is no (as far as I know).

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/
 

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

(OP)
Any specific feedback on Robot?  The partner-in-charge (not a structural engineer) is interested in that because of the tie in with Revit.  I checked the website but first-hand reviews are much more helpful.

 

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I have only ever used RISA, but I will say that it is fairly easy to pick up.  And, as stated before, the support is great.  If you have a question about you model, they have an answer.    

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I have used Robot. It has some strong features but the interface is very cumbersome. Autodesk bought it a few years ago and so far has done almost nothing to the software as far as improvements. Like I said above, if you like robot I would take a look at Scia Engineer.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

It's funny, I've heard a lot of speculation about how well Robot and Revit will link together now that AutoDesk has aquired Robot. But, I haven't really heard any buzz from engineers on the topic.

If you're interested in the link between a structural analysis package and Revit, then I would suggest starting another thread about that specific topic.... or, looking for a forum dedicated to Revit or BIM.  

 

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

For those of you who like RISA and use Direct Analysis:

Have you worked through the "benchmark" problems in the commentary of Appendix 7 using RISA?  Please see page 16.1-435.  According to the information on RISA's web site, many additional joints must be added between the member ends to adequately model the P-Delta (big and little) effects.  However, when the compressive load is small compared to the Euler buckling load, the number of additional loads is required is minimal.  

How have you handled this in your designs?
 

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Risa Floor/3d is user friendly, but it is not without flaws.  Risa 3d will not compute live load reduction for column loads even though this is done in Risa Floor.  You'll have to trick the program to calculate unbraced lengths for beams supporting steel joists.  Also, you'll have to trick the program to size composite beams correctly for deflection when they support post composite applied dead loads. Concrete design is limited in its usefulness.  When I used Ram prior to our purchasing Risa I did not notice as many design bugs, but the Ram interface was archaic and visually checking a model for errors was more difficult.  That being said Ram did have slightly better output of design information for Reports.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

DHKpeWI -

Have you tried to work through those Benchmark problems in any other program (STAAD, RAM, SAP).  Last time I checked, they ALL require that you add intermediate joints to the member in order to fully match the "theoretically correct" equations.

Now, the RISA documentation makes it pretty clear exactly what you have to do in order to capture this P-little delta effect.  Not sure if the other guys address the issue as thoroughly in their documentation.  Maybe they do, maybe they don't.  

Disclaimer: I am actually a RISA employee. I also sit in on most of the AISC task committee meetings for Chapter C and Appendix 7.  So,

 

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Whaaaat?...No GTSTRUDL??... winky smile

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

RISA 3-D is hands down the best. If RISA were to disappear off the face of the earth, I would quit my job and become an architect.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

(OP)
"If RISA were to disappear off the face of the earth, I would quit my job and become an architect."

Hilarious...I might just use that arguement when pitching it to the powers-to-be in my company.

"If you don't buy RISA, I'll only be as good as an architect to you."

No offense to any architects here...

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

We use staad and the only thing it is good for is for finite element analysis for matslab foundations or very complex concerte structures. Many of our designs revolve around a simple concrete deck over steel beams with a lot of point loads (equipment) throughout the design. What should be an easy model becomes almost impossible to do when considering beam/slab connectivity. Staad suggested moving the slab off of the beams and putting in mini-columns to support the slab. An extremely lengthy process for a simple calculation.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Any thoughts on CSC's Fastrak/Tedds?

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Does anybody know the differences in price between all these packages for a single license as a comparison?

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

Please note that there are other structural softwares intensively used in the industry. Please see the following links:

http://www.microstran.com/

http://www.spacegass.com/

These are 3-D structural analysis and design softwares. The analysis side includes plate elements as well (Space Gass). Design side is the screening the members in accordance with the design code requirements. If you buy complete softwares these will include all the design code listed in their catalogues. They have elastic buckling, vibration analysis (natural frequency and response spectra) modules in addition to the master slave contraint option, and they are very handy. You can see the other features by connecting to the links.

They are very user friendly, and you will pick up in a short time. I am a user of the last 15 years.

Hope this gives some idea about other softwares around the World.

Regards.

Ibrahim Demir

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

My company purchased Tedds about a year ago to replace Enercalc.  The greatest advantage of Tedds is that it's not a black box.  The printed report shows every step of the calculation.  You can modify the built-in calculation modules or create your own (but I haven't taken the time to figure this out yet).  The biggest down side to Tedds, in my opinion, is that there are some calculations that we do routinely but are not included in the package, particularly in masonry design.  If you're considering Tedds, you should carefully review the list of calculations included, keeping in mind that they add a couple new ones every month.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

TEDDS is not a structural analysis package; it is an elec calc pad.
STAAD is a crappy DOS program with a clumsy graphical interface. I used it when I worked for Bechtel.
In Australia we generally use Microstran or Spacegass & both beat STAAD hands down.
 

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

sdz - we are looking at TEDDS right now - it has all sorts of structural applications.  The rep didn't show us any electrical aspects.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

I have been using GTStrudl for many years (25+) and it is a good general analysis/design for most structures.  If you are in the nuclear power plant area, it is one of the few programs that is QA/QC qualified by the NRC.  I attend the annual user's group meeting and there are users in the bridge and building industry.  I learned it using the command interface where you generate joints and members and specify the loads and boundary conditions.  It has a Graphical UI but you tend to use what is comfortable.  I don't do much FE work but GTS has a decent library of elements.  

Before GTS, we used ANSYS for a brief time when we had a card reader to run on a timeshare service circa 1985.  Before ANSYS we used STARDYNE from CDC in the 1970's and spent about $50,000 per month to analyze transmission towers and substation frame structures using a card reader and JCL (Job Control Language).  "It must be right if it is printed on green and white" was a popular saying for those old enough to remember tractor feed line printer paper that we went through by the box.  At this time an Engineer just out of college was making about $1000 per month.

When GTStrudl came out on a PC (we were using a MicroVAX with a dumb terminal to run GTS before that), some other users in the office were using STAAD to analyze power plant frames so I had a little exposure to STAAD, but overall I prefer GTStrudl.

_____________________________________
I have been called "A storehouse of worthless information" many times.

RE: Structural Analyis Software Recommendation

JAE, SDZ - Tedds has a word application that is similar to MathCad but not as powerful.  It is more like a spreadsheet in word.  It recognizes units and variables but does not preform integrations or solve system of equations simultaneously. It is good for organizing calcs and creating your own.  It's easy for someone else to follow the calc you've created as well as apposed to a spreadsheet where you don't always see the equation that is used.  It is also possible to incorporate an excel spreadsheet but I have not tried it.  The Tedds library is also pretty good in that you can easily follow what the program is doing.  I would like to know what others think of it as I don't have much experience with other programs besides enercalc.  Also I would like to know how their Fastrak compares to RISA.   

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