Underground coal gasification
Underground coal gasification
(OP)
Let me preface this question by saying that I am not familiar at all with coal gasification. There are several trial projects underway here in Queensland, Australia in which deep coal seams are ignited and the resulting gases are collected. Sounds good, but one of these projects is reported to have contaminated the ground water with benzene and toluene. Would be interested if anyone here has experience in this area, and if similar problems have been encountered.





RE: Underground coal gasification
http://www.ergoexergy.com/eucg.htm
RE: Underground coal gasification
RE: Underground coal gasification
Does anyone know the current status of this technology in the US? I hope it is not a case of a risky scheme being foisted on ignorant farmers in the Antipodes.
RE: Underground coal gasification
http://www.syngasrefiner.com/ucg/
RE: Underground coal gasification
I wonder, if once started, they could be extinguished if necessary. IMU, there are underground coal fires that are impossible to extinguish, which have raged on for years. Google "coal seam fires".
"The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying." Tony Hayward X-CEO BP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco
"Being GREEN isn't easy." Kermit
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com
RE: Underground coal gasification
There are many reasons it is beneficial to perform coal gasification underground, not least the huge cost of building a purpose build surface gasifier - somewhere in the order of $2B - and elimination of the need to first mine the coal via traditional methods.
There is confusion among public, investors, regulators, etc regarding UCG, which should not just be regarded as one UCG technology. There is no such thing as generic UCG technology. Even among the three listed players in QLD, there is significant difference between the type of UCG technology used. The company you mention above above provides technology to Cougar Energy. It also provided the technology for the successful Chinchilla trial from 1999 to 2003, which complied with strict environmental standards. My research concludes that this company has the most advanced UCG technology(eUCG) and the only technology that has been proven with many years of clean operating experience.
It is correct that 2 out of 30 trials in the US resulted in groundwater contamination. The contamination in these cases resulted from significant deviation from cardinal rules of safe operating practices. It is understood why the contamination occurred in these cases.
Finally, when operating a UCG plant, the operator has control of the supply of oxygen which can be shut off to extinguish the underground process. Natural underground coal fires are not easy to put out because no one has control of the oxygen supply.
Hope this answers some questions for you guys,
regards
RE: Underground coal gasification
RE: Underground coal gasification
The problem here is that there are people popping up all over the place, claiming that they will perform UCG. It is not that easy. This is the sort of attitude that will create environmental problems. Companies essentially experimenting with this process who dont actually know what they're doing. It is equivalent to some random person saying they will build a sky scraper when they have no knowledge or experience of civil engineering. I wouldn't go in the building!! In the case of UCG, however, there are no text books one can learn the science from as it is still essentially a new 'technology/s'
Regards,
RE: Underground coal gasification
If that is the case with UCG projects, I may become a greenie. The three trials here in Queensland, even if they are being conducted by the best of the current operators, are under a lot of pressure, as shown in the attached article. A big part of the problem is that the governments here, both state and federal, are not sophisticated enough to perform as a watchdog.
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RE: Underground coal gasification
I've read all the press. The reporters don't have any clue what they are talking about. They are still confusing CSG and UCG in a lot of cases. They just want to release sensationalist press without regard for any scientific process or proof. Even after Cougar Energy proved they had not caused contamination, the press were still releasing sensationalist articles. The latest fiasco with Carbon Energy proves the point. The greenies, press farmers and pollies find any contamination and immediately they blame UCG. Mercury has nothing to do with UCG and is more likely to come from regular coal mining or the coal fired power stations in the area, which are constantly spewing out toxic chemicals.
Among all of this, no one has mentioned the devastating effects that farming has on the land. Clearing of trees, salinity, erosion, high nitrates not to mention the fact that pesticides are just as likely to pollute groundwater sources. Yes there is Benzene and Toluene in a range of farming products which are indiscriminately sprayed onto the land and end up in water sources.
The government don't necessarily need to act as watchdogs, even though that is supposed to be the roll of DERM. Maybe they could regulate who is entering the industry based on proven experience. Regardless, there are many ways to skin cat. The fact is that UCG offers the safest and cleanest form of coal extraction, when done correctly. The greenies want reduced CO2 emmissions. UCG is the key to achieving that. Any that say they only want renewable energies are kidding themselves. Coal will be here for a long time to come.
Regards,
PS: Being an engineer and a Greenie don't really fit well together. I note you are a structural engineer. Iron ore mining is possibly one of the most polluting industries but where would you be without it?
RE: Underground coal gasification
Sounds like you may have a vested interest. I don't.
RE: Underground coal gasification
RE: Underground coal gasification
RE: Underground coal gasification
"The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying." Tony Hayward X-CEO BP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco
"Being GREEN isn't easy." Kermit
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com
RE: Underground coal gasification
Latent007: To answer your question. Yes, of course I'm an engineer. This is an engineer forum. And I'm not a rookie in my job. I finished university 20 years ago.
RE: Underground coal gasification
Hi guys, yes lets calm down but continue the healthy debate. We're all engineers and I think we can all learn something from each other here.
I wasn't justifying UCG by comparison to farming. I was just pointing out that these farmers, who are the ones complaining over something that hasn't happened, shouldn't thrown rocks in a glass house. I understand your concerns but believe they are bred by lack of detailed understanding on the subject. I was merely trying to give an educated opinion as an engineer with experience in the industry.
As per usual, as engineers we should apply a risk based approach which means we look at the consequences AND the liklihood. Yes the consequences can be high but the chance of failure occurring can be managed and reduced to an acceptable level (i.e.: Pretty much completely).
I'm interested to hear your opinions on Nuclear Energy, which pretty much suffers from the same affliction - High consequence/low liklihood. Should we just completely negate nuclear energy based on the consequence of failure?
Micalbrch, i certainly wasn't implying that you were a rookie. I was trying to appeal to your engineering intelligence to get my point across
Hope you're all having a good weekend....
RE: Underground coal gasification
2 failures out of 30 tries certainly isn't ready for prime time IMO. Keep it in the DOE lab where it belongs for apparently some time yet.
"The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying." Tony Hayward X-CEO BP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco
"Being GREEN isn't easy." Kermit
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com
RE: Underground coal gasification
Farming certainly does a lot of harm to the land in some areas, but not all. There are many farmers who look after the soil and water and improve it. Australian farmers are naturally very protective of their water, as this is the dryest continent. We can't live without water and agriculture, while we can live without the products derived from burning coal deep within the earth. Maybe this technology is completely safe, but so far we have been given the mushroom treatment.
RE: Underground coal gasification