It's No Wonder!!
It's No Wonder!!
(OP)
We've all seen those posts wherein the OP claims to not be able to find any information. Here's an example (though I've seen worse, I wasn't inclined to search for them...this one was recent):
Perhaps there is a phonetic search engine that might help those who cannot spell or cannot create a logical search string. Is this the goal of "Bing"?
In this example, there are three "sentences", at least three words are not spelled correctly, and there is a mixture of units. Although his primary search string is spelled correctly, it appears to contain a colloquialism (pot), that might not achieve his goal and would necessitate resorting to other search strings. What would he attempt in his next search?
I realize that language is a barrier, but it seems that more often their lack of search success is related to an inability to spell, or to apply some sense of logic to the search.
Thoughts? Discussion?
Quote:
I would like to have some information about "Piping Pot for Level Gauge". it is kind of pressure vessel 24" in diamiter and 2600 mm in hight with sight glass and flanges.in the web I can not find usefull information.
Perhaps there is a phonetic search engine that might help those who cannot spell or cannot create a logical search string. Is this the goal of "Bing"?
In this example, there are three "sentences", at least three words are not spelled correctly, and there is a mixture of units. Although his primary search string is spelled correctly, it appears to contain a colloquialism (pot), that might not achieve his goal and would necessitate resorting to other search strings. What would he attempt in his next search?
I realize that language is a barrier, but it seems that more often their lack of search success is related to an inability to spell, or to apply some sense of logic to the search.
Thoughts? Discussion?





RE: It's No Wonder!!
Reads like it was written by someone for whom English is not their native language. Some younger Brits write and express themselves just as badly, though.
Oddly, despite spelling, ambiguity, syntax and semantic problems in communicating with the world in general, youngsters seem to make their contemporaries understand what they intend, despite the literal meaning of what's said being different.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
When I review the reports of my associates, I feel a duty to make sure that the grammar and spelling are correct for several reasons. First, they need to learn (or at least I think they should) and second, it conveys an image that I want to promote for myself and my business, and last, but certainly not least, I want the information to be universally understood by the "audience".
RE: It's No Wonder!!
When my boys were in high school, they would get papers back with incompetent spelling, punctuation, and grammar with decent grades and no indication from the teacher that there was a problem. When my wife would occasionally be asked to review the papers before they were submitted she would mark up the grammar and give it to me to look at the technical stuff. Those papers always got top marks and usually a comment of appreciation from the teacher. But the drek we started with would also have gotten a good grade.
I've always felt that you get what you measure, so if the 21st century schools feel that language is only the role of the language teacher, then the students will do just enough to get by and the language skills that my generation valued will become secondary and tertiary.
I finished a job last week where a 1st year Engineer had been working for 6 weeks on a technical analysis of a project. The deadline was fast approaching and he got called away to a 2 week class at the last minute. His mentor hired me to finish the analysis. I spent 40 hours trying to pull his draft together into something that could be presented. Then found that he had completely missed 1/3 of the project and I had to throw it all away and then spent 46 hours doing the analysis from start to finish and documenting it. His analytical skills were a touch weak, but that was just the inexperience that we all start with. The problem was that his communications skills were non existent. He's a smart guy, but no one ever held him accountable for his communication skills.
David
RE: It's No Wonder!!
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: It's No Wonder!!
If you check some dictionaries, you will find spelled is the preferred US spelling, and spelt is preferred in the UK. When you are contributing to this forum, you might want to check your own posts for spelling and punctuation.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field
RE: It's No Wonder!!
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: It's No Wonder!!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Rowingengineer,
Can I pose that question another way? How much of your job is communicating with draftsmen, with clients, with superiors, with users, with other Engineers, with subordinates? The better you are at clear, unambiguous communications, the fewer problems there are and the more time you have to do the fun parts of the job.
I think my communication skills are adequate, and I believe that those skills have played an important role in my limited success in my career. I've known a number of Engineers that were almost proud of their inability to spell or punctuate, and they have tended to be frustrated with their rate of advancement to more responsible positions (I'm talking leading project teams, not necessarily into management which always seemed to me to be a horrible way to make a living).
David
RE: It's No Wonder!!
RE: It's No Wonder!!
All of my day is spent communicating with draftsmen, with clients, with Engineers, with subordinates, aka having fun! However this is mostly verbal communication, generally gramma in spoken form is not that closely scrutinised. I a great believer in; if you can write it in an email, you can call someone instead. However sketching to me is the more important skill in my field, a nice sketch will tell a tale worth reading about.
However given my firm handles insurance reports on a regular basis there is a need for the written communication to be both technically and grammatically competent, I hire a secretary for this purpose, and ensure I use spell check for most of my communications.
Sure I maybe over stating my incompetence, but who can read this?
Olny 85 plepoe out of 100 can.
i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
The importance of grammar, is in the communication level, and the people the document is create for; e.g. for a legal doc you need to ensure a great deal of clarity, however for a person on site that only made it to grade 10 and dropped out, the need to be more simplistic and less grammatically correct is also important.
On a website that has no requirements for English competence to be a member I think we can handle a few communication errors, especially given engineers in general have a stronger right side of the brain (the left is the bit that helps with English and related subjects).
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field
RE: It's No Wonder!!
My intent was not to be hard on the OP. In fact his question is irrelevant. My point was that if one wants to find information in an english based data structure, one must conform to the data structure, not just summarily dismiss that the information doesn't exist when insufficient or improper search attempts are made.
Secondarily, I see many examples in day-to-day practice of engineers who cannot communicate effectively, or whose credibility suffers because of their lack of written communications skills. Perhaps I'm just stuck in an "old school" attitude, but I think that writing remains an important tool for the engineer. David gave several examples, similar to many we've all seen.
As I stated in my post, this was not the best example of this issue that I've seen, but it was a recent one, so I used it.
I suppose there's an irony in my post. I try to use proper spelling and grammar; however, I did not convey my intent adequately to be understood in general.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
RE: It's No Wonder!!
I always say, if you have trouble with my grammar skills or a language, it is your problem not mine.
Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: It's No Wonder!!
RE: It's No Wonder!!
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zdas04: I wonder if teachers today are more used to texting language than real English? Whn u txt u need 2 use fw ltrs as psibl. L8r, c u 2moro! Can you imagine?
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Yeah, that's fine as long as you're trying to convey your message to people who are willing to try and puzzle it out. A search engine, as the OP was trying to point out from the very beginning, will not be so forgiving. Search Engine 101: Make sure your search terms are correct.
I've gone poking around in other languages. If I want to search, I make damn sure I have everything spelled right. Ideally, I find a reference in that language with the appropriate term in it, and copy from there. If not, option #2 is Babelfish or similar online translator. Not great for generating large swaths of native-level idiomatic text, but pretty good for a word or short phrase.
I should not be excused from having to do this kind of research if I want to look something up in a foreign language, and neither should anyone else.
Hg
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RE: It's No Wonder!!
No one forces anyone here to try and puzzle anything out. You have the option to ignore it. There are times to pick on language skills, this is not one of them. If I were looking for a smart engineer, I could not careless about his/her language skills, as long has he/she gets the job done.
Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: It's No Wonder!!
It's not a value judgement(**) on a poster's worth as a human being. It's an observation on how tools work. No, I take that back. I do judge someone harshly who doesn't bother to do what they need to do to get a tool to work--especially if it doesn't involve really esoteric knowledge about how the tool works. Someone who doesn't understand that search terms need to match, that computers aren't very good (getting better, but still not very good) at figuring out spelling mistakes, maybe is not ideally placed in a technical field.
Hg
(*) I don't believe in the "no split infinitives" rule. It did not come from natural use of language but was imposed from outside by those who weren't clever enough to notice that the real reason Latin didn't split infinitives was that it can't--infinitives in Latin are one word, not two. However, if I'm writing in a particularly formal context, I obey it anyway just in case it happens to be my reader's pet peeve.
(**) Noah Webster made a lot of sensible changes, but I just can't get behind "judgment".
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RE: It's No Wonder!!
I've had spelt corrected to spelled several times.
Unless we're talking about the grain
As to the OP, correctly telling the search engine what to search for is half the fun! That's why I usually try searches several ways with several phrases.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: It's No Wonder!!
When you send out garbage, expect garbage to be heard.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: It's No Wonder!!
- Steve
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Earlier this year I was teaching a class in London to folks from all over Europe with a sprinkling from Australia and a few places in Africa. I started off by asking what units people used for reporting well volume-flow rates. I got SCF, m^3, E3m^3, Joules, and BTU. For the ones that used a version of m^3 no one could tell me if it was "normal" m^3 or "actual" m^3, and if it was normal, what was the pressure and temperature base. The ones that used energy couldn't tell me the energy/volume conversion. About half used SCF. I was going to teach the course in SCF anyway, but I got a lot less grief than I would have gotten if I hadn't polled the room.
Units just keep amazing me.
David
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: It's No Wonder!!
'No soccer
fields closed'
So my wife called me to confirm that she still had to pick up my daughter for soccer, since none of the fields were closed.
I explained that soccer was cancelled, and the message was supposed to be:
'No soccer.
Fields closed."
Don't tell me that grammar isn't important.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
'No soccer
fields closed'
So my wife called me to confirm that she still had to pick up my daughter for soccer, since none of the fields were closed.
I explained that soccer was cancelled, and the message was supposed to be:
'No soccer.
Fields closed.'
Don't tell me that grammar isn't important.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
The kid could still be waiting at the field because there was no soccer as fields were closed!
A bad grammar such as " No pick up (name of the kid). No soccer" would have sent much clearer message.
Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Know pick-up, no soccer.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Initial consulatation. free. no. charge.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
and above all google gives you the correct spellings in link which can be search with another click.....So what have I wasted 1 Second..........much better than spending 5 minutes to look for spellings.............
The whole game has changed since you guys left school.......it is about finding info.......not memorising info...you cannot memorise everything but you can find a lot of it........
Anyhow search is not all about getting you spellings right.......It is to find the most appropriate search string which gives you what you want & that involves multiple searches(most of the time....)
If you wanna talk constructive lets talk how to search something easily or effectively......share your experiences & techniques...........after all these forums are about finding solutions not criticizing someone on his language skills(or in some cases on how much they care about spellings & grammer)
RE: It's No Wonder!!
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field
RE: It's No Wonder!!
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Like Gurjjeet says "The whole game has changed since you guys left school.......it is about finding info.......not memorising info"
No need to learn what to do with that info once you find it or the like.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Who cares? Since it's on the Internet, it must be true.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: It's No Wonder!!
David
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Anyways getting back to the question & my post.....anybody tried the original search & saw if they got the exact stuff on putting the correct spelling search string?????? If you havent then all you are doing is beating the bush........
What he needs to find is the pot he is after not the dimensions. Still, that is not enough he needs to come up with alternate words to search.....
The whole post I wrote was about the use of correct spellings in a search string......& No wonder most of guys cannot find on internet what they want........They stress too much on spellings but not on the actual art of Searching on net.........This is relatively new skill set which is not much dependent on spellings & grammer.
@Kenat...Mate, I do not see your comment related to the topic.......It seems you wanna stress that a person who does not care about the grammer does not know what to do in his proffesion....Sounds bit stereotypic isn't it??
@Rbulsara.....Mate, where did this old school got the information from when they were born.....I guess they didn't reinvent the wheel when they were young???
I was not here to have a argument but only to stress that the knowledge of spellings is no longer a merit/desirable quality(with microsoft word & E-mail clients...it is bit easy these days)
On the grammer side apart from patent applications & legal documentation, I do see a trend towards more casual approach in written communication in general.
I am not against a person with good grammer but it is not highest in my priority.
I once had a boss who will not tolerate a minor spelling mistake in a document but needs to be told about the difference between nitriding & thru hardening. He was a Mechanical Engineer.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
A word to the wise, you're posting in a "Engineering Language/Grammar Skills Forum" forum, it's generally considered good form try to be reasonably correct with your use of language here.
Oh, and I ain't your m8 me ol' cock sparrow.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: It's No Wonder!!
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Uh Ron......u shd nt use a Comma(,) before and......
nd You got my name wrong in your post......I would worry more about the recipient name spellings than the......
Perhaps Copy & paste......
And my English is reasonably correct.....perhaps my definition of reasonable is not very reasonable for you.
Hahaha.....have fun guys......Don't stress too much....
RE: It's No Wonder!!
This of course does not apply to that idiot ajack1 whose faux pas on his previous post just goes to prove what a buffoon he really is.
It must be incredibly difficult for someone whose first language is not English when the English use spelt and the Americans use spelled not to think that spelted is acceptable.
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Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: It's No Wonder!!
David
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- Steve
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Frankly, who cares what you type into a search engine, it doesn't matter, because you are the one who will determine if the answers it produces are what you want. However, on a forum such as this, you are asking living (mostly) people to give you assistance, voluntarily. It is extremely rude to throw out a badly worded, ambiguous, sloppy request, and then expect people to voluntarily waste their time trying to interpret your question.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
Star for you. Your last sentence hit the essence of the thread.
David
RE: It's No Wonder!!
rmw
PS: and I did use the Google spell checker on this, although I don't always agree with its recommendations.
RE: It's No Wonder!!
They must have seen the plethora of eBay typographical errors and decided to start a website to capitalise on these.
Maybe there's a market for an engineering equivalent ???