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Question about year end review

Question about year end review

Question about year end review

(OP)
Hi all,

Have my review coming up and my manager is asking me to be prepared to discuss my plan to educate/develop myself personally (as opposed to professionally).  What do you imagine that he's looking for?  Seems like a work review doesn't really need to touch on my personal life.

Thanks.

RE: Question about year end review

I'm guessing your boss is looking for something that says you don't go home and become a couch potatoe with no outside interests.  Personally I think it should be your buisness and not his, but I also am a big fan of life long learning.  Tell him you are taking a cooking class to learn to eat healthier, or studying the history of the american revolution (or pick a suitably patriotic hisorical period for your country of origin).  I think he's just looking for general pursuits that make you a well rounded person, you know that same lame reason why engineers need to take non-technical electives.  

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

RE: Question about year end review

Tell them politely that you do whatever you think is necessary for your well being. However, you do not intend to invest your private time and money for the company's benefit. You meet your obligation of working for 40 hrs a week and any paid overtime.

Also ask them how would they help, to compensate for your addtional investment of time, money and effort for the company's benefit.

If you get a irritated response, look for another work place. There is no need to succumb to undue pressure or imperialism.

Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com

RE: Question about year end review

Asking about your personal life seems odd to me, like the other replies have said.

Are you sure he wants to know about your personal home interests and not about your personal work interests?  I have to prepare a development plan each year and it covers what my interests are, how I'm going to achieve them, and when I'm going to achieve them.  Gives management an idea of their employees interests and where they envision themselves in the years to come.

For instance, any training courses that people are interested in taking would be put in the development plan.

RE: Question about year end review

It's possible his plan does mean educate/develop "professionally". Your personal education reflects on your professional work. He may have other plans for your at work.
Doesn't hurt to ask him for clarification.

Chris
SolidWorks 09 SP5.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Question about year end review

I am almost certain he meant to ask,

What do you *personally* want to do in terms of furthering your training, i.e., do *you want* to get into detailed piping design take FEA training, etc...what *interests you*?

 

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Question about year end review

(OP)
Professional development was seperate

RE: Question about year end review

Or even tell you boss(es) you like to spend time with your family in your personal time, your "other" obligation in life, and that allows you to recharge and come to work next day with full energy! And see the expression on their face!

Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com

RE: Question about year end review

I have an off the wall idea.  Why don't you just ask him what he means and if you need to prepare anything?

David

RE: Question about year end review

Hopefully you misunderstood him. Your boss/company has no business asking how you plan to develop outside of work.

Now looking at this from another angle you could play this to your benefit. What do you like to do after work. Ride a bike, work on old cars, go to church, ..etc.

I'd give some thought to it and come up with an idea on how you can spend less time at work and more time pursuing a hobby and still get paid.

Here's a pitch... Yeah boss I like to be physically fit as it helps me be more productive at work and cost the company less in health insurance. To that end, I propose working 10 hour days Monday - Thursday and taking off on Friday so I can go down to the river and Kayak with my bro's.

Good luck.
 

RE: Question about year end review

Perhaps he means:  

"Fred, besides your request to take a class in 'Advanced Widget Design Analysis', maybe you'd consider also taking a class in 'Developing Positive Team Leadership Skills' ."

This is while the cartoonist draws the thought-bubble over his head with the words "Take the hint, Fred, I need someone to run the new $100M BigCo Inc. contract next quarter."

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: Question about year end review



I think you should say you're thinking of taking a grant writing class, subtely alluding to the fact that you are thinking of applying for a grant to study the feasibility of hostile takeovers of large engineering companies by smaller ones.  It's a new concept in economics you are developing for your church group.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto:  KISS
Motivation:  Don't ask

RE: Question about year end review

I agree with Tygerdawg.  It is probably just in reference to your 'soft skills'.

RE: Question about year end review

Soft skill or hard skills, if it is not on company's time or not being appropriately compensated or rewarded for, the employer has no business formally asking what do you do outside the working hours.

Just remember that a promise (or carrot) of future promotion is not a reward or compensation.  In fact these are usually just excuses for not giving you enough raise or a full bonus. No one is perfect in the world. No one should expect perfection.
 

Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com

RE: Question about year end review

rbulsara,
I don't understand why you assume that this is an invasion of his privacy.  I don't see anything here to "go to the matresses" over.  I'm betting that it is just a misunderstanding on the part of the OP and if he follows your advice he'll be labled as some sort of activist and nudged out of any responsible positions until he can be terminated.

If the OP doesn't ask his boss what he meant by his question, then he probably deserves to be pushed aside.  It is irratating that he asked the question here and that hot heads have chimed in with the assumption that "The Man" is screwing the "Little Guy" out of his "rights".  The whole "I work 40 hours/week and what I do on my own time is none of your damn business" approach can only put everyone on the defensive.

David

RE: Question about year end review

zdas04:
OP has already clarified, the Professional Development is separate.

I draw a line when someone asks me about my private life/time/hobbies while on a lunch/dinner table or while driving together.  The employer has no business asking these things formally during a review. Why do they need to know what personal efforts are made for "their" benefit?

I already said, one can always respond I do what is necessary for my personal well being. One has every right not to think about the work after they leave the office. It should not be a yard stick to measure any work related rewards.

 

Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com

RE: Question about year end review

To me that questions smells of HR.  As such, it would get the vague type of answer that a similar question would get in the highering process.

Pick a hobby that you enjoy, show a little passion about it, and spin it to show a positive influence on your work.  Maybe you are really into fishing, and you work with a lot of composites, you could go off about how you have been researching the latest and greatest rods, and how the techniques they use to make them could be applied to contract XXX.  You will have shown that you don't go into a vegetative state when you leave work, and will have really told them nothing about your personal life, other than you like to fish.
 

Engineering is the art of modelling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess, in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance.
-A R Dykes
 

RE: Question about year end review

I agree with Yagonyonok.  There is clearly an expectation of an answer, so give them one that is worthy of a job interview that effectively tells them nothing.

I would consider following that up with an honest and sincere inquiry into why they are asking this and state that you are curious how this has an impact on your annual performance review.
 

RE: Question about year end review

Are we sure it's not the distinction between personal professional development, and development within the organization?

For instance, your company may be in a sector that is exempt, so don't care about PE.  However, personally, you might want to get it.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Question about year end review

Just don't mention the new camera and the little viking suits, or the windowless van with "Free Candy" written on the sides.

RE: Question about year end review

A friend of mine whose career trajectory has not flatlined once observed that most engineers are good at engineering, and bad at communicating. I cannot see any downside from asking for a clarification, as zdas suggested, in fact it might do some good, as it shows you are taking it seriously.

 

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies  http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Question about year end review

I'd follow Snorgy's recommendation.

Then again, I've never had a year-end review help (or hurt) me.   

RE: Question about year end review

I agree with zdas that some people may be over-reacting. While I agree that in certain instances personal should stay out of the professional arena, and vice-versa. However, there is a large "grey area" that arises, especially if you spend personal time with co-workers. Take a much more blantant example where the boss may have said:

"There's a rumor that a management position may be opening up that I think you'd be good at, but don't know if I can convince the others that have a say in who is hired/promoted. What kind-of ammo can you give me for selling them putting you in this position?"

While this situation may show favoritism and not be completely professional, I don't think many people would see this as "the man" screwing "the little guy." If you take the example I gave, become more vague about what sort of personal activities you are looking for, and leave out why you want to know, it starts to look very much like what the OP asked about.

I think you should ask for clarification. Then you will know if you should spend your time coming up with an in-depth response accompanied by a Powerpoint presentation, or if you should tell him that it's none of his business.

-- MechEng2005

RE: Question about year end review

Surely a plan to educate/develop yourself personally means that they want to know if you will get more qualifications at your own personal expense as they won't pay. It all depends on the definition of 'personally'. If you do intend to educate yourself that would be of benefit to the company (ie. not cookery classes, unless you're a chef), then it'd be reasonable for them to contribute in some way, either monetarily or time to study.  

Tata  

RE: Question about year end review

If you're unsure about what the customer wants, the best solution is to ask for clarification, not waste time on a random assumption of what the customer wants.

You're unclear on what the customer (your boss) wants in regards to this question.  So ask.  "what exactly do you mean by personal development?  Dance classes, or management courses?  I just want to be clear what you're asking"

 

RE: Question about year end review

True story...

Once upon a time, I worked at a company in which I declined to go to a golf tournament, because I don't golf.  Then, just prior to Christmas time, I did not accept the invitation to the Christmas party because my wife had made plans for that particular day / evening.  My boss came to my workstation and said:

"It is important to your career development that you attend company functions like golf tournaments and Christmas parties.  Management needs to know the kind of man that you are and the kind of woman that you marry, because it has an impact on your promotability.  That said, will you be attending the Christmas party this year?"

My response:

"No.  I am the kind of man, married to the kind of woman, who prefers to spend Christmas and days off with people I actually like."

I wasn't promoted.  But, at least I didn't simply cower and comply, and I had the guts to call them on their complete, out-of-line stupidity.

Work is work.  Leisure is leisure.  Unless one has an adverse impact on the other, it's nobody's business but your own.

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Question about year end review

Snorgy, you wouldn't want to be promoted in such an organization anyway, would you?!

Who you've married and what you do in your leisure time, as long as it's not illegal, is none of their f*ing business.

How you relate to your co-workers is of course material to your business performance.

There's a huge difference between being a private person who makes a clean break between their personal and professional life, and being a borderline sociopath who doesn't communicate with anyone unless absolutely necessary (and does it poorly even then).  In my experience, the latter make very poor employees/co-workers, and you always worry whether or not they're going to "go postal" when you finally have to fire them!

Back to the OP:  ask the boss what they meant by their question.  Never hurts to ask, rather than asking us to jump to conclusions for you!

RE: Question about year end review

I think it's been said above.  We are all good engineers, yet only a few of us have suggested going to the boss for a clarification.  My boss knows I love my sports and as such when some clients come into town he gets tickets to a game for us.  It doesn't happen often, but it sure would suck if I hated Baseball/Football etc.

drawn to design, designed to draw

RE: Question about year end review

I have to say that if I owned a company and I was looking to promote people to position in which they were to take over part of my business I would want to know what they are like outside of work. While it is easy to say I've done my job well that should be enough, if it were the business owner would you like to know if this energetic engineer can handle client contact outside of a work environment? Most people find this easy to assess at Christmas parties and social functions.

As such if they have noticed that your lack the "soft skills" to handle the next promotion then maybe some soft skill training would help. I am currently doing some "soft skills" training as I have noticed that I failed to pick up some of the required minor points that are used during conversations.  
 

An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field

RE: Question about year end review

Fair enough, rowingengineer.

At the time I made my statements re: Christmas parties, I was an EIT.  I wasn't going to be a business partner with anyone any time soon...

That said, in the context of what you describe, your point has validity.  I would view things the same way, but I would also let the candidate know what I was thinking and why.  I would start with a question like:

"Would you see yourself being interested in a career path that leads you towards a position of partnership or as an officer within this firm?"

Then suddenly things can be expected to become relevant, instead of a bit off-the-wall.

 

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Question about year end review

Would agree snorgy, delivery is everything.

An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field

RE: Question about year end review

I'm one to talk...I learned that a bit late in life...

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Question about year end review

There are better and subtle ways to judge someone's personality than asking as a formal question in a review process!!

And even if someone says, you should do this and that so that "someday" you may become a principal or a VP- Do not buy it. It usually means that we want you to act like one in front of clients but we won't be paying you as much.

If you have in you to become a principal, VP or an Owner, you do not need employers help, you will become one, one way or another.

Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com

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