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TOP KILL

TOP KILL

TOP KILL

(OP)
OK, HERE'S THE FIRST REAL TOP KILL

Birnbaum, MMS director and 20 yr gov attorney gets the sack!
http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIX/2009jun00257.html

-----------------------------------------------------------
OBAMA.  WHY WAS NOT AN ENGINEER IN THAT POST?
-----------------------------------------------------------

TOP KILL 2 ???

"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying."  [B]Tony Hayward CEO, BP[/]

Hello Tony.  Hello?  Hello?



 

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: TOP KILL

"WHY WAS NOT AN ENGINEER IN THAT POST"

Why is that important?  They're supposed to be managing several thousand employees, and their job is to ensure that they've hired the best experts they can afford.  It's a "nice to have" but not a necessary requirement.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: TOP KILL

(OP)
Simple.  Its not only employees that need "management".  Such a "management-for-the-sake-of-management alone" strategy focuses on HR aspects, work load and, inevitably, costs, at the sacrifice of technical requirements. I think it's better if businesses do not forget their core purpose at the expense of pushing paper through at minimum cost.  And BTW, what makes an attorney, read "lobbiest" in this case a managing director of a geologic resources and technical service?

Given, if it is, a binary choice, I'd rather have people taking too much time managing technical criteria, rather than fast paperwork.

"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying."  Tony Hayward CEO, BP

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://vir

RE: TOP KILL

(OP)
P.S. Apparently todays "resignation" answers that question... for the moment.

"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying."  Tony Hayward CEO, BP

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://vir

RE: TOP KILL

(OP)
And as for Hayward, he started out as an engineer, but apparently got too concerned with financial results after becoming Browne's (OMG) shining star in 2000.

"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying."  Tony Hayward CEO, BP

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://vir

RE: TOP KILL

The question of what skills a manager needs comes up all the time.  There have been hundreds of rising stars in Academia who have written their doctoral theses on this subject and far too many in business and government who have read that tripe.

Bottom line to me is "what is the individual's scope of control?".  If he can approve highly technical requests, then he damned well better be able to understand the language being spoken to him.  If you relegate a department head to only acting on personnel matters, then he should be an HR type.  If he or she has the final say on a budget, then some finance/accounting/economics background makes sense.  If the jerk can say "yes" or "no" to a proposal to drill a multi-billion dollar well in 5,000 ft of water then he needs to be able to understand the difference between a BOP and bottle of pop.

I can't count the number of times that this "a good manager can manage any group" garbage has led to stupid technical decisions.  If he is going to have authority over technical decisions then he needs to speak tech.

Before anyone asks--no I'm not saying that the U.S. President must be an expert in every topic that concerns the country.  The President needs to set broad policy and strategy, and the technical decisions that implement that policy need to be delegated to subordinates with appropriate technical skills.

I'm glad to see this unqualified fool leave.

David

RE: TOP KILL

All,
    Nowadays there are too many "bean counters" in charge of Engineering Companies. Yes I know that you need good financial accumen at the top of an Engineering Company BUT and it's a big BUT you need an Engineer to make competent decisions in engineering and "bean counters" cannot do that and neither can your common or garden MBA!!!

RE: TOP KILL

(OP)
Very good discussion zdas. I do realize there are a lot of grey lines and areas to this, but my philosophy is that, if you're at the top, you have the responsibility for the whole pyramid below you.  If you're "just the pharoah" and  don't feel comfortable making some decision concerning any  thing that is going on between you and the sand, you damn well better be sure that whoever you have delegated the responsibility to is knowledgable and capable enough to make a decision that could affect ... well ... your mortal being, in extreme cases.

Does Kermit have a song, "Its not easy being at the top?"  If the rumors are true, its just going to be a matter of time to see where and how high the cracks go. One thing for certain is, the topstructure gets weaker as the foundation blocks crumble.   

"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying."  Tony Hayward CEO, BP

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://vir

RE: TOP KILL

I've worked for about 20 different division managers over the years.  Without a doubt, the best division manager I've worked for is my current one, who has a financial background.  Almost all of engineering-oriented division managers failed to mind the store, or even recognized that there was a store to mind.  Most of the finance-oriented ones failed to recognize that there was engineering to be done.

What sets this current one apart from the others is his recognition of his limitations and the boundaries of his position and his ability to let engineers do what they do best and not get in their way.  That's what you need to properly run a company.  At his level he does not need to know the nitty-gritty details of a BOP, or even who makes the best BOP, because he's got PEOPLE who are better suited to figure that out.

At the end of the day, the company leader is supposed to LEAD and MANAGE, not engineer, and not bean count.  That's not to say that knowing the general principles of how a BOP works wouldn't be useul, but it's not mandatory.  

The division manager that was the strongest engineer stank at his job.  He was too busy attending design reviews and discussing fine points about RF antenna theory with the grunt engineers and basically got mired in the details and lost sight of the big picture.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: TOP KILL

(OP)
Yes, of course you are right.  Scientists left to themselves would probably build a supercollider and start the annihilation chain reaction, never thinking twice about the impact on the rest of society.  Engineers, as anyone else I suppose, in reality are just as susceptible.  I guess that I'm really saying is, that if you want to stay safe when delegating work when you are still going to be held responsible, you'd just better be sure you delegate the job to the right person, whether its managing a paper trail or doing the welding.

But, I still feel that this is an obvious case of lobbiest-to-director doesn't necessarily make for anything but a good understanding of "Peter Principle" mechanics.  I always liked the study that once came out with the rather unexpected results, companies that "randomly" selected their managers actually performed better than those that went through a miticuluous selection process in choosing the "best" manager.  Something to think about.  Kinda like the monkey selecting stocks and outperforming most of the pro-run funds theory.  BTW.  You haven't seen that monkey have you?   

"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying."  Tony Hayward CEO, BP

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://vir

RE: TOP KILL

We, as engineers, have a parochial, and possibly very narrow view of the world.  At a previous company, we got into lively discussions about management "logic inverters," because our new GM came in with a "Slash&Burn" approach that decimated our IR&D projects and killed some incredibly profitable products with last-time buys, which to us, was tantamount to committing hari-kiri.  So, obviously, our GM was operating on a logic inversion, or was simply clinically insane.

However, I had a very wise manager (well, maybe not that wise, since he was still working there) who showed me the "dark side." of the GM's world.  We were losing money, hand over fist, and then some, so this new GM had a simple mission; turn a profit or find a new employer, and, whatever would happen, needed to happen on a 6-month time horizon, i.e., he either succeeded and got promoted, or he failed and got fired, in that time frame.  

At that point, it's clear, even to engineers, what any sane person would do; he'd kill any outlay of money that wouldn't bring in a return in 4 months, and any steady, but low monthly income product would be forced into a last-time buy to spike the revenue for the months remaining on his horizon.  So, he did exactly that, and 5 and half months later, he had two consecutive months of profits, and he was promoted.  The next GM came in, who started as an engineer, surveyed the carnage, and said, "What the h*ll happened here?"  

btw... those products he killed were truly amazing.  They were 10-yr technology that had been designed into telecom equipment, and were so profitable that we could sub out everything, including printing our own logo and part number, and still made something like 80% gross margin.

That first GM, is, of course, at the top of my "most evil GM" list, because he was truly unscrupulous and looked out only for numero uno.  He was, on the other hand, from the production engineering side, and quite brilliant in understanding his place in the world, though.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: TOP KILL

(OP)
That's just a simplistic approach to nothing more than short term profit, which hardly takes a genius to accomplish, nor should be called anything simlar to management.  To put it in your own words, slash and burn is about as much akin to management of a forest as building a parking lot.  Anyone with a knife could do equally as well.  Day traders and other short term "investors" like to think of it as management, but we know what their only motive is ... a higher price on Friday and unfortunately its all the rest that pay the price.  I can't agree that such tactics qualify one for a title of manager; nastay little hatchetman, or murderer in the 1st Degree, yes.

"We have a leadership style that is too directive and doesn't listen sufficiently well. The top of the organisation doesn't listen sufficiently to what the bottom is saying."  Tony Hayward CEO, BP

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://vir

RE: TOP KILL

Hmmmn.

Managers, businessmen, or engineers (men who KNOW their business technically)?

Who does it best?

Ford
Siemens
Westinghouse
Edison
Carnegie
Parson
Kellogg
Brown
Root
Babcock
Wilcox
Brown
Boverie
HB Zachary
Kaiser
Gates
...

Seems to be some common theme among these men's names ....

But the pure technicians (Tesla, Roebling, the guy who actually wrote the code that Gates recognized and marketed) for example, are not quite as familiar.  

The really good leaders do both.  
 

RE: TOP KILL

There are plenty of companies of their namesakes that flamed out for one reason or another.  Given that 90% of most new businesses die relatively quickly, I don't think there's much of a fast and hard rule.  You need to be lucky AND good AND consistently BOTH over time.

La Salle
Montgomery Ward -- almost made it to the 21st century
Woolworth
Chrysler
Wang -- this one was actually directly driven into the ground by its namesake
Osborne
Cray Computer
Northrop -- could be on either list, but it was only saved by mergers with Grumman and Westinghouse
Westinghouse -- ditto, but its name didn't survive the merger
Grumman -- ditto
Amdahl
Tesla Electric Light & Manufacturing -- Tesla's own company wherein he was fired by his investors

And, some of the names on the other list would have died if someone else hadn't come along to pull it from the brink.

As with most success stories, you can easily find 10 companies that started at about the same time that didn't even make to a historical footnote.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

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