Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
(OP)
I am doing a 13R sprinkler system in an 8 unit motel. The water supply is 1 1/2" for both domestic and fire.
The only available spring loaded automatic domestic shutoff valve is a 1" size. I need more supply than that.
It was suggested to me that a solenoid control valve could serve the same function.
There are a wealth of possibilities with this, which is where I am unsure of how to design this. The most obvious idea has been to place the solenoid valve in the domestic line and have it shut off with a signal from a flow switch on the sprinkler line.
I have to choose: normally open, normally closed, 24V, 120V, 12VDC, and many more.
Should the solenoid be at rest (not energized) and then close with the flow switch signal? Or should the solenoid be held open constantly and close when the sprinklers flow or if the power goes out? This would likely be 120V powered, same as the local alarm bell.
Is this sort of arrangement even acceptable?
The only available spring loaded automatic domestic shutoff valve is a 1" size. I need more supply than that.
It was suggested to me that a solenoid control valve could serve the same function.
There are a wealth of possibilities with this, which is where I am unsure of how to design this. The most obvious idea has been to place the solenoid valve in the domestic line and have it shut off with a signal from a flow switch on the sprinkler line.
I have to choose: normally open, normally closed, 24V, 120V, 12VDC, and many more.
Should the solenoid be at rest (not energized) and then close with the flow switch signal? Or should the solenoid be held open constantly and close when the sprinklers flow or if the power goes out? This would likely be 120V powered, same as the local alarm bell.
Is this sort of arrangement even acceptable?





RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
Also why the flow switch? How many sprinklers we are talking about in total?
As far as being acceptable just ask your local fire official because they make the last judgment. Bit of advice, always leave it to the AHJ
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
The solenoid set-up sounds wacky to me too, but it was suggested by one of my biggest suppliers, so I was just doing some cursory investigation.
To further show my ignorance, right now I have no idea what a Cla-Val shutoff switch is. But I will soon. Thanks for responding.
Alex Traw
Rainbow Fire Sprinklers
Albany, Oregon
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
or
2. Separate the two into respective systems and add the domestic demand to your calcs at the intersection point. Usually you can get an estimate for the demand from the Mechanical Engineer.
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
Most NFPA 13R combined systems include the domestic usage with the fire system demand when completing the calcs (which eliminates the need for a solenoid valve). I have never seen anyone use a solenoid valve in this manner AND I am not sure whether or not this approach is acceptable based on NFPA 13R.
You need to research the applicable NFPA 13R standards.
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
This motel is up in the mountians at a fishing resort, as far from the county seat (and AHJ) as you can get. Some of the oversight seems to have been lax. Lax until I put in my deferred submittal that is. I'm not complaining, because I want to put in a good system. My current frustration is the the hassle I'm having getting key information I need in order to run my calcs. Little stuff like water flow, the size and location of the supply, for example.
So I'm dead in the water for now.
Alex Traw
Rainbow Fire Sprinklers
Albany, Oregon
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
There's the Tyco Model F540, Residential Domestic Shutoff Valve http
Have you looked at a self contained water supply that is listed for 13R? Generally run between $2,000 and $3,000 it would get you out of the problem with a water supply you know nothing about.
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
Model RSV-1 Residential Domestic Shutoff Valve 1 and 2 Inch (DN25 and DN50)
For Dual Purpose Residential Water Supply
http://www.tc-vp.com/TFP980_01_2006.pdf
Approvals
The 1 inch (DN25) Model RSV-1 Residential Domestic Shutoff Valve is UL and ULC Listed and is suitable for use in water supply arrangements for residential fire sprinkler systems designed per NFPA 13D.
The 2 inch (DN50) Model RSV-1 Residential Domestic Shutoff Valve is UL and C-UL Listed and is suitable for use in water supply arrangements for residential fire sprinkler systems designed per NFPA 13D or 13R.
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
I had originally had two sprinklers flowing in the most distant (remote) compartment, but there are three heads in one room right next to the riser, 261 sq. ft., so I have to use it, according to the plans examiner. So I basically need 45gpm, which I doubt I can get through the RSV-1
Alex Traw
Rainbow Fire Sprinklers
Albany, Oregon
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
That the RSV-2 was discontinued in 2006 shows how long it's been since I used one.
Why 3 heads? Maybe you can get a single head to cover the 261 sq ft. compartment? What's the dimension of the compartment?
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
I've got a 19 x 12 area with a 6/12 slope and then a 3 x 11 flat section off the low end.
I just got some numbers from the water system, stat- 60, res- 55, flowing 70 gpm through a 2" service.
Then there is approx. 50 ft of 2" underground with three elbows to the bldg.
I just got back to the office and this is my focus for the rest of the day.
Alex Traw
Rainbow Fire Sprinklers
Albany, Oregon
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
I was able to add the domestic with the fire demand and make the hydraulics work.
Alex Traw
Rainbow Fire Sprinklers
Albany, Oregon
RE: Solenoid valve for domestic shut off for 13R system?
The valve would be outisde the sprinkler flow but required for design sprinkler operation. I have found nothing listed or any indication that anyone would test something for this use to get a lsiting.