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BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

(OP)
Would it possible in your opinion to reduce or stop the crude oil flow using LN to freeze it?

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Getting LN2 down 5000 ft thru warm salt water would be the trick.

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

The gas hydrates alone stopped it inside the dome and kept it from entering the pipe to the surface.  The trick is getting the hydrates to form in the well bore, or a big and heavy enough dome that will make a seal and won't leak oil from under the skirt, should the hydrates plug the pipeline.

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" frog Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

I suspect getting enough heat transfer area at the wellhead to freeze the crude coming out at 5,000 barrels/day with liquid N2 would be physically impossible.  Just not enough ft2 there.

Good luck,
Latexman

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

(OP)
LN should slash crude viscosity and so the reduce progressively the flow (before freezing)

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Ever tried to do an above ground freeze plug on a line which had a bit - just a bit - of flow in it? With the exception of sulfur lines, that's quite difficult.

I could see hydrates reducing the flow if they could be made to form, but stopping the flow would be quite challenging.

jt

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

There was quite a discussion of using LN2 on the MMS website.

The latest information says that the gas component of the flow has increased significantly. This would hinder any attempt to use LN2.  The additional gas flow would in the opinion of some would enhance the chance of the "junk shot" working.

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

They have decided on using the smaller "top hat" type containment dome. It seems like they are hell bent on trying to inject methanol, which in an ideal situation would work. However, at this point, I don't blame BP for anything they try.

 

"Scientists dream about doing great things. Engineers do them." -James Michener

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Holy Crap.
 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Maybe one option would be to "kinetically deform" the riser using detna-charges and  an approporate enclosure, to be installed by a US Navy mini sub around a section of  the riser. It should be possible to squish the pipe to an ID of less than 1" with a properly designed charge.  

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Looks like gas (NG) is running along the upper diameter and liquid (crude oil) along the bottom diameter and the ratio of the mass flow of each is changing significantly and quickly.  Definately two phase flow.

Good luck,
Latexman

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

According to a poster well versed in the art and science of offshore drilling the riser pipe apparently cannot hold the shut-in well pressure which you would get almost immediately if you clamped the pipe.  From what little information I've come across is that you have to kill the flow at or very near the BP.  

According to some reports the well failed a very critical pressure test just prior to the "kick" and boom.  According to my contacts with a couple of drillers that work off shore you don't have much choice when a well fails the "negative pressure test".  I haven't had chance to get this test defined, but as I understand it the there are three points on the well head where the pressure should balance and if not you have a leak somewhere in the cement job. This well failed 2 test, one just prior to the blowout and explosion.  


   

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

A negative pressure test is when the pressure inside the well is lowered to find out if any gas can or is leaking  from the formation into the well.  The first test was apparently bad and they retested.  The 2nd test registered 1400 psig in the drill pipe with 0 psig in the kill and the choke lines, a sign that the formation was leaking gas into the drill pipe.

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy"
....frog Kermit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

unclesyd,

Please post a link to the discussion on MMS.  Thanks!

Good luck,
Latexman

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Adm. Thad Allen USCG was just on the all the news channels with a little new information.  H would come off the 5000 bbl/day estimate.  he key point was that the oil was not the giant  monolithic spill it once was, it's just a bunch of smaller one scattered over a wider area.

BP is going to insert a tube (8" from another source) into to the open end pipe (API 21") to "siphon" some of the oil to the surface.  They hope to be able to install something like a packer if they have any success.

They are to test the "top hat" today.

Not sure about this one as a reporter interrupted.  They have either take radiographs at the BOP or going to.  This is check the position of the  valves.  

They have determined (measured) that the pressures are lower than originally assumed.

They are looking at cutting the riser and putting a well control valve above the BOP.

They are also looking at replacing the BOP itself.

They still have the "junk shot" in the works.

At times I wondered who he speaking for the USCG or BP.

CNN also found a report from LNL where the Russians used nuclear explosions to kill four out five wild welds.

 

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Mr. President, about that oil spill.  Now it's flowing twice as much, and it's radioactive.

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Like 5000 barrels per days wasn't bad enough, independent researchers are now estimating the flow at 70000 with a 20 percent margin of error. That means it is like an exxon valdez disaster every 4 days.  

"Scientists dream about doing great things. Engineers do them." -James Michener

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Some of the easier-to-eat lighter oil components that get exposed to oxygen eating bacteria now, will be eaten as a food source, but the heavier components will be around for a long, long time once they become removed from an oxygenated environment.  Valdez heavies have still not dissappeared.  

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Perhaps these are the dead zones you mention, or are they new ones?

Quote:


The Guardian, U.K.

Ocean scientists in the Gulf of Mexico have found giant plumes of oil coagulating at up to 1,300 metres below the surface, raising fears that the BP oil spill may be larger than thought – and that it might create huge "dead zones".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/16/gulf-oil-spill-bp

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

As far as I know, there is a large part of teh gulf that is already "dead" due to a century of agricultural runoff into the mississippi river and other rivers that are drained by the mississippi. But the oil doesn't improve the situation.

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

[sarcasm]Gee, environmentalists are so stupid for thinking that the human race could have an impact on the environment. [/sarcasm]

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

BigInch,
There some preexisting off shore dead zones around the mouth of the Mississippi River.  These have been there for a number of years and there is still debate as to cause, the leading candidate is the fertilizer runoff from the Midwest. Most of the shrimpers and fisherman can give the exact location of the existing as there is nothing there to catch.  This section of the gulf doesn't need any further degradation.

They are worried about the loop current carrying some of the oil through the Florida Straits and into the Gulf Stream and up the East Coast.  You would see some jumping jacks if a few tar balls hit South Beach in Miami.

What gets me is why do we hear of just one research vessel studying this problem.  It Looks like a golden opportunity to measure some of the effects instead of postulation  by computer simulation.  
 

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

In respect to the research vessel I just watched a program on the Discovery Channel where James Cameron was filming the Titanic @ 15500 ft use a Russian Vessel and two submersibles, one to supply light for the second to operate two different robots.  Cameron has made numerous dives to the Titanic on his own nickel. Some of The Wood's hole people offer to measure the leak using their equipment to measure the Black Smoker Vents, there offer was declined.  

The price of shrimp is already depressed due to imports from the Far East.  Fresh shrimp is mainly for the higher end restaurants.  A little know fact to most is that a shrimp will try to leave any water that it considers toxic to it. The squid will do the same only faster. Both of these creatures are major items in food chain.



    

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

If they start collecting more than 5,000 barrels/day from their 4" tube, won't they look foolish?

Good luck,
Latexman

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

According to the below link , the pre-existing dead zone in the mississippi delta is a mere 6000-7000 square miles. But compared to the BP spill, it  seems to be more difficult to point the finger at the 250,000 farmers that may be the cause of it.

<http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/>

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

BP and the Government have succeeded in turning the oil spill into a none event or a misstatement.

At this moment the Google news page doesn't have one line about the spill or response.  Talking about falling off the radar.

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

It's been getting some coverage in SoFla, what with tarballs washing up on pristine beaches.

Actually, they're not that pristine.  They had tarballs before, from tankers discharging goo.  So far, no one has proven that the new tarballs are BP tarballs.

 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

On the way back from lunch today, the guy on the radio said that the tar balls in Florida are from the ships, not BP's spill.  Don't know if that's a reliable report, but thats what he said.  

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

I'ts true.  Tar balls been found on the Gulf of Mexico beaches at least since Karankawa days.  They would pick it up and waterproof their reed baskets with it.  You can't swim anywhere on the Texas coast without getting a few black smudges on your feet.  Most are totally natural seepages.  350,000,000 gallons of it seep naturally from oil formations around the world each year.  

Some does come from errant ships as of late history, but I don't think its really that much.  The consistancy of the weathered tar balls is much different from new oil.  Tar balls are basically only the heavies, that's why they're called tar balls, not oil balls. Even new weathered crude "tar" balls, still show some shinyness to them and smell different.  Tar balls are duller in appearence than new asphalt.  Its pretty easy for an old Texas surf fisherman like me to tell them apart. New oil comes off with soapy water.  True tar balls need a kerosene, or BBQ lighter fluid wipe to remove them.  You usually find you stepped in a few after you get home and take off your socks and walk around on the carpet.

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Where on the coast are you BI?
I'm in Pt Arthur and haven't heard of any around here.

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

OMG OMG! There's tar on the beaches of Santa Barbara California as well! bugeyed

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

Ya.  I guess this one is from that other British posession, Gibraltar.  No, not really.  There was a tanker that ran aground opposite Gib. on the Spanish coast around 18 months ago.  They didn't get all of the oil offloaded.

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: BP disaster and liquid nitrogen

"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong, it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair." - Douglas Adams

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