ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
(OP)
Hi folks,
Say that you work for a wood truss manufacturer who sold trusses to a school, and you happened to be at the school site one day for non-professional reasons. Say then that you noticed these trusses had been exposed to rain for some time and had warped (they had not yet been erected and were still bundled together on the ground).
What is your responsibility as an engineer and/or as an employee of the truss manufacturer? Should you notify the school that they should just keep the trusses covered, or should you tell them that the trusses may not be safe to erect? Or another option, like do nothing? There are liability issues involved, too.
cheers.
Say that you work for a wood truss manufacturer who sold trusses to a school, and you happened to be at the school site one day for non-professional reasons. Say then that you noticed these trusses had been exposed to rain for some time and had warped (they had not yet been erected and were still bundled together on the ground).
What is your responsibility as an engineer and/or as an employee of the truss manufacturer? Should you notify the school that they should just keep the trusses covered, or should you tell them that the trusses may not be safe to erect? Or another option, like do nothing? There are liability issues involved, too.
cheers.





RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
Improper storage of trusses can severely reduce the shear capacity of plate connectors. This becomes a potential safety issue. You don't wait for confirmation of a safety issue...you warn first then let the chips fall.
Send a letter to the Facilities director of the school system, to the contractor, and to the structural engineer of record.
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
cheers.
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
How can there be liability raising the fact that there may be an issue in using the trusses. Several possible outcomes:
1) The contractor does check them out and decides they can use them so how can you be held liable?
2) The contractor does not check them out and use them - again how can you be held liable?
3) They do check them out and find they can't use them then you've saved them some time and money - again how can you be held liable?
If you didn't report and something bad ultimately happened - for you to be liable they would have to a) know that you were at the school b) had noticed and c) did nothing. the first two could be very hard to do. I would worry more about living with my conscience!
Kind regards, HM
No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
Please could you post the details of the case or provide a reference or link? I'd like to have a look to see what the reasoning behind the prosecution / disciplinary was.
Many thanks, HM
No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
1-Contractor does not have the qualifications to decide their acceptability. He decides, you don't object, you buy his decision...if he's wrong, you're liable as the professional who should know.
2-Contractor should not make the decision on acceptability. Since you've seen them, you're obligated to warn. If you warn and are ignored by all...your liability is reduced, but you'll still have to prove you adequately warned.
3-No problem...new trusses. Contractor loses money for truss replacements because of poor storage.
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
There is good negligence case law (in the UK at least) which establishd the principle that if you offer advice in a professional capacity (even 'off duty')and somebody relies upon it and suffers damages / loss etc then you can be held liable. Frankly i wouldn't hire anybody who couldn't decide themselves to do something about a possible safety issue like using a warped truss.
I cannot see how if you warn and are ignored you would attract liability - even in the US!
Kind regards, HM
No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
I would also copy the principal of the school, head of the school board and the state board of engineering. I ight include the truss manufacturer as well.
I would sign the letter with a PE after my name. It's your duty. I would phrase the comments with things "in my professional opinion..." etc.
IF my kid got hurt in a collapse of the structure and I knew you saw what you did and said nothing. I am sure I could turn over a few rocks and get a lawyer to include you in the lawsuit.
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
"the Cordonne case in Canberra both
happened at schools and involved
accidents with glass which did not
comply with the current Australian
Standard which was first introduced in
1972.
The leading litigators we sought advice
from on this issue informed us that the
success of these cases were
underpinned by a special part of law
that confers a higher than normal
responsibility on institutions which
care for children."
Here is an extra from a legal advice given to Australian engineers working on School projects, Note the higher than normal responsibility.
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field
RE: ethical question - warped trusses and the engineer's role
I agree with you that it should take no more than that, but it often does. I've been in essentially the same situation before. In two of those cases, all it took was pointing it out to the right group and it got corrected. In one case, I had to write a letter to the building official to have a stop-work order given to the contractor.
The Engineer who designed the trusses (or his company) should be the one to evaluate such conditions. Many contractors can get an opinion from an Engineer with a little money (an ethics discussion for another day!!). Opinions don't necessarily protect the public. Action and appropriate evaluation usually do.
Ron