definition of " material sourced from China" ?
definition of " material sourced from China" ?
(OP)
A recent problem relates to valves supplied by a canadian valve company ( starts with a "V") for a US gas fired combined cycle plant.
Our valve spec stated "no materials sourced from China may be used ". We found the F91 forged small bore valves were stamped as forged in India, but the original bars were formed in China, then forged in India.
Is there a definition accepted as a "term of the trade" that specifies whn a substance becomes a "material"?
At other related components, we found high pressure high temp fittings recieved at the same site stamped as A182F22 but are in fact carbon steel.
Our valve spec stated "no materials sourced from China may be used ". We found the F91 forged small bore valves were stamped as forged in India, but the original bars were formed in China, then forged in India.
Is there a definition accepted as a "term of the trade" that specifies whn a substance becomes a "material"?
At other related components, we found high pressure high temp fittings recieved at the same site stamped as A182F22 but are in fact carbon steel.





RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
Here's language from the Buy America provisions for highway projects in the US; you might find their "manufacturing" definition of interest.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
Material in the context is original material used for construction, not the finished product form. We use the same language for boiler tubing where we state "foreign sourcing of material shall be reviewed and approved by the Purchaser".
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
PMI should be used to confirm material identity as meeting the appropriate grade identified by the piece of paper (MTR) and the markings on the forging/casting/tubular, etc.
Materials identity is a major problem when dealing with any valve supplier. Valve parts may be manufactured by any number of manufacturers throughout our global economy.
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
If you have a clause that flows down all of your requirement to all levels of sub-suppliers then you could be covered.
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
However, having said this I know that most suppliers do not interpret it this way. They seem to interpret this as "no finished products from China".
These days, it seems that all the major international manufacturers are sourcing raw materials from China. Hopefully, they are providing adequate QA/QC on the received raw materials to assure that finished products are acceptable but that probably varies a lot from one manufacturer to the next.
Many users accept raw materials from China provided the raw materials are finished by a reputable manufacturer that they have "approved" and that they trust to have properly inspected these raw materials.
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
One problem as I see it is that metals sellers are no longer metals people, they are businessmen with franchises. You have all seen MTRs that have circled the planet several times visiting fax machines.
When I did failure analysis on new, defective pipe fittings, the answer to the question was usually the name of the offshore manufacturer who supplied it (all holding ASME stamps).
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
Note that fasteners used in US aviation products must be sourced in the US. This was an outcome from grossly out of spec aviation fasteners that showed up in the pipeline that allegedly originated in China.
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
If the melt MTR is missing we reject it regardless of where they say it came from.
I think your real issue with these parts is the poor forging work in India.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
Remember a piece of paper can be copied/forged (no pun intended). Unless you know where the original material is from and it is a reasonable source you do not know for sure what it is that is being supplied. Mind you I always thought that's what the Quality Departments of Companies was for to check - check and check again!!!
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
If you try to source international from a desk you will end up broke and maybe in jail.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
I agree with you on limiting purchases from China. Your point about plastic does not address engineering plastics, which are far removed from cheap toy materials.
In my problem with China, our gear supplier went to China for acetal [Celcon] and we had a rash of infant mortality in a premium product line. We lost all our customers, the company was sold twice, and the multiplant operation is now a disaster scene.
I suspect that there is a strategic cause for China selling cheap. They may be financially undergirded by other enemies.
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
RE: definition of " material sourced from China" ?
I think if the contract said "no material sourced in china" then there is a very good case to reject all of the final products and return to the supplier as they did not meet the contract requirements!!!