Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
(OP)
Ok, we are doing some "SmartGrid" work...reconductoring, switch installations, communications and control. We have federal funds to spend...
I have been asked to give my thoughts on using a wireless 802.11 network to communicate the control signals to the associated switches, etc. Not surprisingly this project is run by an IT person (long sigh...).
I feel that the use of a unlicencsed network such as this is a bad idea. Keep in mind that this system will allow load to be tripped or transferred, or possible paralleling of the 13.8 kV with the 115 kV.
Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
It isn't so much the security issue I am concerned about (passwords and encryption would be used) but rather the lack of reliablity associated with using a non utility owned comms system (it is regular old Wi-Fi communications at this point).
Thoughts anyone?
I have been asked to give my thoughts on using a wireless 802.11 network to communicate the control signals to the associated switches, etc. Not surprisingly this project is run by an IT person (long sigh...).
I feel that the use of a unlicencsed network such as this is a bad idea. Keep in mind that this system will allow load to be tripped or transferred, or possible paralleling of the 13.8 kV with the 115 kV.
Does anyone else think this is a bad idea?
It isn't so much the security issue I am concerned about (passwords and encryption would be used) but rather the lack of reliablity associated with using a non utility owned comms system (it is regular old Wi-Fi communications at this point).
Thoughts anyone?






RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
Check the SEL-3022 from Schweitzer as an example. This is supposed to meet NERC security requirements. Of course, it has to be separate from the normal office WAN/LAN system.
Is it 100% secure - no, but nothing else is either.
David Castor
www.cvoes.com
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
This is not a social networking site like LinkedIn, where such topics are often posted and discussed by many who have no clue as to how a grid works or any electrical circuit for that matter.
Narrow down your question to specific technical ones, to get a better response, if any.
Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
I would bet your IT types will balk at the cost and complexity compared to the ease of an open wireless link.
I am not too excited about the idea, but if enough security can be put in place, maybe it will work. Can you try it out on a small project?
Also, make sure some of the "dumb" equipment and protections are still in place to keep the disaster to just lost load and not lost protection.
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
I am mostly amused by rbulsara's comments...Social Networking indeed. I am an electrical engineer with 30 years in the industry, much of it driving a certain really large federal system in the NW US--about 18,000 MW worth of transmission sales, etc (Operations/Planning/SCADA/Communications)--I am fairly confident that I have more than a clue about designing/planning/operating an interconnected electrical system.
I now work for a modest sized IOU. The loads that could be tripped, switched, or otherwise manipulated are those native loads that we serve on our distribution system.
We use Ed Schweitzer's products--I was merely wishing to get a relatively unbiased opinion from others. My experience with SCADA and leased PSTN lines makes me prefer comms system that we own/control. And yes, it IS an IT person running things--mark that off to corporate politics...it is what it is.
I think we will scope this project so that if the wireless part turns into a "goat rope" that the project in general will still succeed. I really dislike the WiFi solution really from the standpoint of multiple parties making use of it. However, the cost of deploying a traditional wires/fiber/digital radio (read licensed) is quite high...
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
Your IT person needs to identify every piece of networking infrastructure needed to provide the SCADA services you require. For example, people often overlook things like DNS services and while the links between your systems have proper backup power, if they can't resolve the host names they need, your network is worthless.
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
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100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
I'm dealing with one of those problems today. I did actually learn a little something so it wasn't a total waste, just mostly a waste of time.
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
WiFi for control of power plants and substations.
EE have a good stuf for the telecontrol, telemonitoring and good protocols like to DNP, IEC-104 etc.
Thanks IT guys, we don't need your help in this issue.
SMART GRID!!!
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
I agree that WiFi is really a dubious solution for the control of anything that is important. However, IT managers are quite adept at infiltrating organizations and laying claim to areas that, perhaps, are outside of their area of expertise. Sometimes people and projects have to fail before learning occurs--this is unfortunate, but pretty much a fact of life.
An observation: For the early part of the 21st century it looks like the term "SmartGrid" will be a new entry to the corporate game of "BS Bingo"...sort of like the horribly abused word "paradigm" was in the 90's.
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
Didn't the IT guy see the movie "Live Free or Die Hard".
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
But seriously, shouldn't RF Denial of Service be considered as a viable security risk.
I found the info at the link below interesting.
http://ww
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
I am looking at & comparing similar systems as we speak. As my office has received Smartgrid grant.
It's a confusing mess that's for sure. IT guys think everything should be WIFI til you hack their nannycams!
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
So, we need to send guys to a unmanned station if have to during the "bad weather".
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
RE: Thoughts on "SmartGrid" Implementation
The article:
http://
The NIST document (IR-7628 DRAFT Smart Grid Cyber Security Strategy and Requirements) is here:
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