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Are companies really requesting salary histories?
5

Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Are companies really requesting salary histories?

(OP)
Because of some personal issues, I've been looking for employment in a different geographical region.  I haven't sent out any resumes yet, but I've noticed that every website I visit asks for salary history to be included with your resume.  Is this common?  This was not true when I was looking for a job after graduation 5 years ago.  

I don't have too much of a problem providing that information, but I honestly feel like it's kind of irrelevant.  Honestly, if I were to be offered what I'm making now or 5% more, I feel like we'd be getting off on the wrong foot when I pretty much tell them to pound sand by actually saying that my current salary is not a reflection of the value I bring to my employer, but more of a reflection of the economy as a whole.  I would also say that I really have no interest in them basing their salary offer on my current salary, but would think it should be in line with their needs; the value, technical knowledge and ability, and work ethic, I bring with me; and what the going rate is for someone with my experience level (not that it's that much, but I'm not a fresh grad).  I just feel like that's really starting the relationship off on the wrong foot.

Any opinions?

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

SEIT...yep, salary history is fairly common.  You weren't asked after graduation because it's not relevant to new graduates.

The reason for this is to see your progression.  It's a waste of time and effort for both parties because it means little to nothing.  One of the primary reasons you leave one company is to better yourself in salary and benefits. For a company to rely on this information to make you an offer is just so they can make the lowest offer they think you might accept.

Give it to them, then negotiate hard...tell them if you wanted to stay at the same salary you'd stay at the same place!

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

What I've decided is that I will never share my salary information with any future employer. If they refuse to hire me because I won't provide that information, so be it.

It's personal and confidential data. There is no good "business case" for me to tell a prospective employer who has not extended an offer how much I currently make.

Hoenstly - would you tell a car salesman how much you have in your bank account?

(The reason why companies want that it is the cheapest and easiest way of collecting the data so they know how much to pay. Cheap employers will use it to decide how much to pay you, less cheap employers will use it to decide how much to pay engineers in general.)  

Cedar Bluff Engineering
http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

No reason to tell them the truth.  It would be illegal for them to verify.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

There is something so wrong about a prospective employer asking that kind of question!
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

As a young engineer, I filled out the salary history accurately. (I was naieve but only 23 at the time.) I got my offer letter, accepted it, and then the hiring manager mentioned that he gave me a $5000 boost in my pay over my previous employer and I should be pretty happy about that. It dawned on me than had I written a different number maybe $10k higher, I might have received an offer $10k better.

(I wouldn't lie, but I sure will leave it blank and not show my cards next time.)

Cedar Bluff Engineering
http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

The salary history is used by companies to weed out prospective employees, too high, no don't want him too expensive. Too low no, if he cannot get more than, that he cannot be any good.
 How about this guy , he seems to be in the ball park, he is earning what we are prepared to pay.
 And so it goes.
B.E.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Never been asked, but that might be unique to aerospace.  I've heard that the HR people get together once a year to swap information.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

How else could employers claim to offer "competitive" salaries if they weren't all colluding or mining information from interviewees?

- Steve

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

That's what I have been seeing in my job search too...  Salary history requests.  

Quite frankly though, it's been so long since I worked for anyone else, I can't remember...

Don't know if that's a liability or an asset...  bigsmile

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto:  KISS
Motivation:  Don't ask

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

It's common practice, but I choose to ignore it like photoengineer above who presents excellent logic.  

The primary reason for this info request was to immediately screen candidates who would surpass the position's budgeted salary.  Then the HR Weasels found out that they could collect salary range data to define what a position should cost.  Then the value of engineering positions got diluted because of hiring lesser-qualified folks, but that touchy subject has been debated here many times before.

I advise "don't do it" and double your efforts to bypass HR completely and target the hiring manager directly if at all possible.  If your skills &  qualifications meet the need, the company will find the money to pay you.  But certainly if you ask too much you'll get ignored.  With today's net resources available, you can easily get a good idea of what the going salary range is.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

The "HR weasels" in question prefer to call themselves "Rewards Management Executives".

- Steve

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Weasels is a euphemism, representing much stronger words that we can't use in a public forum.

Apologies to actual weasels, who deserve better.

 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

I think Berkshire is spot on, one of the downsides of agencies and on line applications is you often end up with over 500 applicants for one job, you have to crudely cut that number down some how.

Of course you don't have to fill in any part of a job application form but it does decrease your chances of getting anywhere except the paper bin.

I do find the Ticks advice "No reason to tell them the truth.  It would be illegal for them to verify." totally amazing, that may be true in some countries but in the UK the previous employer would send all your salary details to the new employer, the Inland Revenue insist on this, so they will know exactly what you earned within a penny. To have lied would be grounds for instant dismissal.
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

That is my understanding too: the Revenue requires that the old employer advises the new employer of earnings to date, although I don't think the new employer will know the makeup of the salary, for example bonus, overtime, etc.

I don't see any reason why an employer would need to know that information prior to offering a position other than to minimise their offer to the prospective employee. It certainly wouldn't be unreasonable to ask why the prospective employer needs that information and see what the response is.
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

It has been my experience that your previous salary is the number one factor in determining what a new employer will offer you.  Most employers will only look at that number and will not consider your college, GPA, work experience, or the likelihood that you were probably over/under paid.  I left this section blank in the last job application and was asked what my previous salary was LITERALLY 10 times during the interview.  In a normal economy, it is in your best interest to add 5k or 10k to your previous salary and then tell them but right now I would steer clear of this question as best as you can.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Our company routinely asks for this information.  I don't think it's at all useful for determining the going rate for a particular job level since all kinds of levels of people apply to open jobs.  We participate in salary surveys to determine that info.
It does help to determine when people are priced out of the range of what we could possibly afford based on their experience.
We also ask for a desired salary so we can make sure we make an offer that is reasonable.  I can certainly see where under-selling yourself on that could result in a lower salary than otherwise.
When it comes to determining salary though it has more to do with experience and maintaining internal equity with the engineers already employed at the company.  It's sometimes a very tough process.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

If I can be allowed the Devil's Advocate position, what's wrong with providing what you make at your present job?  That way, when an offer is to be made, the hiring manager knows where to start.  Engineering managers that are hiring an engineer away from another company know full well that an increase is the norm.  Anything less on either side and someone is going to be going through a painful process of negotiating, that often leaves both parties with bad temperments.

I've been through a couple of job changes at engineering companies and in no place was the HR group ever in charge of what salary offer was made or hire/fire situation.  The HR group sets interviews with candidates selected by engineers and when hires are made, the HR group makes sure the paper work is filled out.  I've never seen it any other way.

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

There is nothing wrong with being asked what your salary requirements are but even that is a can of worms. It is no ones business but your own as to what you earn.

I cannot imagine one employer giving another salary information.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Qshake,

Providing your salary history is bad for two reasons:

1) If you are currently underpaid (as I was straight out of college), it allows your next employer to also underpay since they see you already make very little.

2) If you are overpaid (and willing to take less), it means that many companies that you would like to work for won't even consider you. And there are many good reasons why you might be willing to work for less money than you currently make.

The company should extend to you what it considers a "good" offer to be based on the current pay practices among existing engineers. Then you can decide to accept or reject the offer or renegotiate.

Cedar Bluff Engineering
http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

By refusing to share your salary, you are really making your options less (didn't we already discuss this topic before?).  In today's market, this is not a good plan.  You can always negotiate once you get the offer, if they don't meet "your" standards, then you can tell them to pound sand.  These days' companies are even doing credit checks on their candidates.  While you are jumping up and down about this, others are passing you by and getting the jobs.

 

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Salary is a personal matter. In fact most companies I've worked for didn't like their wage donkeys discussing salaries with each other as it caused resentment, and even mutiny in the ranks. Why they should then ask some stranger, who's applied for a job, to divulge their personal financial situation to them beats me.

Do your future overseer a favour and keep your personal information to yourself, unless it's related to your future servitude. The only question worth answering is how much you want for the job.  

ex-corus (semi-detached)

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Do these websites give the salary range of the available position?  An exchange of salary information would be more equitable than just giving your salary history, but I doubt they offer this.

Good luck,
Latexman

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Wow, according to many of these posts, I shouldn't have ever been employed, as I am of the opinion that what I have earned in the past is irrelevant to positions in the future.  Maybe this is because of job-shopping so many years, but the rule of thumb I follow is that the employer will pay whatever it is worth to them to adequately fill the position.  It is then up to me to accept, reject or counter-offer.  Apparently, I really shouldn't be working with an attitude like that.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

I have no problem telling them what I currently make, as long as I would be happy making another few k on top of it.  Most employers these days are going to offer you ~5% more than your current salary.  I have been offered more, but I think I got lucky.

I avoid any salary questions unless they just won't let it drop.  I remember putting my current salary on an application.  The hiring manager brought me in for an interview, and towards the end of the interview told me that it was more than the position was paying.  My jaw dropped.  Thanks for wasting my time.  

I have always tried to get 15 to 20% more at a new job.  You will certainly have to wait close to two years (depending on when you were hired) before getting a raise.  And most places might only give you 2 or 3% anyways so it is good to get that money up front.

I have always provided a salary history if the ad asks for one, but it is rare, at least in my experience, that it is required.  But again, it depends how much I want to make.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Salary is also highly tied to geographical area.  For example, I am currently employed in a location that has a cost of living that is about 10%-12% higher than my last employer.  My salary in this location is higher as a result.

I would really like to return to my previous location.  While a prospective employer may be interested in my current salary, the raw value doesn't equate to the same type or level of position in that area.  I could, in fact, accept a considerably lower salary and be still better off financially.
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

I was told by an insider what to ask for in a job and also gave them some of my salary history.  However, when I was in the third interview the salary question came up and the company promptly told me they were looking for someone who would be making about 60% of what I was asking for.  What annoyed me was the fact it was the third interview and I had wasted all this time on this company.  I'd love to say what I told them to do but in reality, I suggested that they contact me in case a different position came up, which it did down the road.  Unfortunately I didn't get that job...and I'd have taken it.  It was a progressive company and not too long after all that they were bought out by a multinational and all the share options paid big to the employees.  Ah well..

drawn to design, designed to draw

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Fortunately, I had two offers lined up after being between jobs. They both offered the same because they knew my prior salary. One was in the Chicago area, and the other on Long Island. The latter offer should have been adjusted much higher for the NYC megalopolis. The guy was sorely disappointed when I turned it down.

I never refused to give prior earnings, but it can have a depressing effect on offers. Do we need to inflate the truth?

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

(OP)
I asked my wife about this.  She's one of those HR weasels (though it's not her only function - she's in charge of HR, physical plant, andmaintenance, she's also a SPHR, which is the HR equivalent of a PE).

I asked her because someone mentioned above that it's illegal for a prospective employer to verify your salary with a current employer.  She said that is only true to an extent.  Once you give a prospective employer permission to contact your current (or last employer), your salary is fair game.  

Not that I would lie about it anyway, but that should take fluffing it up off the table for anyone.  That's surely the quickest way to not be considered for the job.  She did also say, however, that they have never asked a current (or previous) employer for salary information.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it a bit distasteful that they would ask you for your salary history (not requirements), but not provide a salary range for the position.  After all, if it's about weeding out people who are going to be too expensive, why not show a little courtesy and not have people waste time on a position in which the upper end of the salary range doesn't meet their requirements?

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

It all comes down to leverage.  If you are unemployed, you have no leverage at all.  If your employed, you have leverage to play with.  Fortunately in the past when job hunting, I was employed and at the top of my game  (knock on wood).  At the end of most interviews I've been asked the questions what are you making now and what are you expecting.  I tell them I make blah blah, but lets talk more on this once an offer is in hand.  Once the offer is in hand with said salary (usally 5% to 10%), I'll tell them I will not sign up unless it is 20% or more.  I had HR balk at this, but once it went thru the hiring manager who knows what he's buying, would sign off if they really needed my skill set.  Sure I had been dropped by others, but the flight, hotel, and diner was sure worth my time and I'm still working for then current company.   

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

I have a little background with this issue I will share.

I applied for a job a few years ago and during the interview they asked me the range of salary I was looking for.

I don't remeber exactly what I said, but I think it was 70-75k.  This was more than I made at the time (which I didn't tell them) but I also explained that it would depend on the entire compensation package to include vacation/holiday pay, insurance costs etc.

They felt I was too expensive and hired someone else.  I know this is the case because I called back and this is what the HR guy told me.

No harm done I took another job.  Fast forward a year and we hired a new engineer, he was the guy that this other company had hired.  Turns out he wasn't very good and my company let him go too, but not a month after this guy started with us, I got an email from the mystery company.

Truth be told they probably could have had me for less than 70k at the time, but they didn't make an offer at all and just hired the cheap guy and it didn't work out.  I am glad they didn't because getting the right person is much more important that a couple thousand dollars IMHO and I don't want to work for someone that doesn't already know that.

If there is ever any question, the fuller beer is mine.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

I generally leave it previous salary blank on any application. If they ask later or during an interview, I try to turn the question around and ask what they are offering by saying something along the lines of, "Well, I would be willing to consider any offer that was competitive in terms of salary, insurance, paid vacation and holidays, flex-time availability, and other benefits. If you can put together an offer that includes the entire package, I would be happy to get back to you."

-- MechEng2005

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Similar to what others have mentioned, I have always put my requirements as negotiable, based on the overall compensation package.  Money is one thing, but there is a lot to negotiate with when it comes to time off, for example.  The overall scope of your proposed work, and how you feel about it, or what you think of living in a certain area (and also the cost of living there).

When asked for what I would want, I deflect with "I am assessing my needs, and feel it is a portion of the total benefits package. Do you have a salary range in mind for the position?"  

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

My story.
All's looking good, two interviews, promises that a written offer was coming, then they asked via email what my current salary was.
I emailed back that it was irrelevant, but this is what I'm expecting to get from you.
And that's the end of our communication, they never got back to me.

I guess you've got to pick your battles. I ended up with a 20% increase with my current employer so it wasn't a big loss.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

"If you are unemployed, you have no leverage at all."

I disagree. You have as much leverage as you are prepared to push for. The only time I was unemployed I ended up taking a very enjoyable job for about a 30% pay rise.



 

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies  http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

"If you are unemployed, you have no leverage at all."  

Depending on your field and market conditions, I agree with you.  My experience is in Land Development.  Everyone I interviewed with was very interested with the length of time that I have been unemployed for which I believe they used to determine the amount of leverage they have.  My last job offer was for 20% less then I was previously making. When I tried to negotiate even a little, I was told that their offer is still more then unemployment pays and that I should be happy having any job.  I start next Monday.
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

(OP)
shadow-

That sucks.  Talk about being taken advantage of.  I hope you keep looking and jump ship when you get a reasonable offer.  To actually say, "It's more than unemployment".......... could they be any more explicit in taking advantage of you?  That pisses me off for you!!!

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

My current boss knew I was unemployed, knew exactly what I was making before that, and hired me on 11% more at the start, and that will go up to 20% more in a few months (after a year). This was also knowing that the previous company had implemented 20%, "temporary", pay cuts.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

When you get a lowball offer like that the only logical arguement you have is "Do you want me to work for you only until I find a better job, Or do you want me to work for you for several years?"  I say it's a logical arguement because I think if I were in the same position I'd bite my lip and take the job, and continue looking for someone who understands how the big picture affects the bottom line and not some shortsighted SOB.  Logical arguements are not worth much when you need a job.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Remember that one of the euphemisms for wants too much money is "Overqualified ", I used to run into that one when I worked as a job shopper for several years. Usually at a rate that was about double that of the regular employees.
  Under those circumstances the employer was very anxious for you not, to let other employees know, even remotely, what you were making. It is interesting that it does not work the other way around. When you tell the employer it is none of his business, you usually end up not getting the job.

  I freely admit that as an employer I used the same tactics of under offering and salary selection to get what I thought were the best qualified people at the best rate for me. If the guy/gal is decent you can always give more, it is a bit difficult when they start at the top of the pay range and you find you are not making money off them. Right now the job market is slack and employers have easy pickings. It is a good time to note which companies treat employees right, and which ones are obnoxious, because now they will be at their worst. However the pendulum swings both ways.
B.E.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Treat the low paying outfits as being a stepping stone to somewhere better. If a company can run their business on what is virtually transient labour making their way to better-paying opportunities then are they wrong to do so? If a company needs employees with years of task-specific or site-specific knowledge then they will probably have to pay a little more to retain their staff.
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Scotty,
Look at McDonald's restaurants, they have built an empire doing just that. I am sure that more than one Engineer posting on this forum, has worked at McDonald's to get some quick cash before moving on to greater things.
B.E.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Greater things than McDonalds?

          idea

Burger King!! rofl2
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Alright alright, Maybe I should have said White Castle.
Another of the same breed, home to starving students working their way through college.
  (Sign posted  in bathroom "Flush twice, Burger King is a block away")
B.E.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Look at bars and restaurants in the US.  I worked a bar for two years, made $35 a shift and the rest was all tips.  On a normal night I'd get anywhere from $60-$200.  But the labor cost the owner sweet F.A.

drawn to design, designed to draw

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

I've run into this as well. (See my previous thread: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=264767&page=1 )

Its even more interesting when its a web application program that requires input.  Didn't like it, but I ended up rounding up and proceeded. I can't imagine what variations they get from these forms, but I'd love to see.  Someone on the other thread even postulated they sell the data to the salary websites !?!

From the above stories, its clear that these HR "tactics" can backfire on the companies that use them, so its seems like a questionable practice at best.

But, then, consider the source.  We all know a few engineers who do some pretty boneheaded things, and some of them are in charge of engineering organizations.  Should it be any surprise, then, that some HR groups use distasteful tactics that might not result in hiring the best people for the job?

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

Waidesworld-
What does F.A. stand for assuming you can spell it out in this forum?

Tunalover

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

tunalover,

The 'A' stands for 'All'. You can possibly guess what the other letter signifies.
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

the last company that interviewed me even check my credit history and asked for my social security number.
i didnt get hired =(

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

A politer meaning of FA is Fanny Adams, or more correctly 'sweet fanny adams', to mean 'nothing at all'.  

ex-corus (semi-detached)

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

(OP)
Westheimer-
Just out of curiosity, what in the world does your credit history have to do with your competency as an engineer?  Did they tell you why this was important to them?  Of everything I've heard on this forum, I think that takes the cake.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

The credit check is becoming more common as well.  I think the logic goes something like good credit = stable employee/low risk, not that I approve of the practice. Have seen the same on application forms for some major aero companies.

Basically, these HR professionals are going to go all KGB/CIA on prospective hires until they can't get anyone willing/desperate enough to submit - or the law/government intervenes.  

Pee here, put your social security number on this form, give us personal and professional references, current salary, list all social networks and handles, report to the local precinct to be fingerprinted, go here for a medical exam - yes, I've seen and submitted to this all.  What's a guy to do when you want/need a job?

I heard talk in the news of a bill to ban the credit check.  But alas, it wasn't based on privacy, it was because it would make it harder for people to get off of unemployment.  Here's a link:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703909804575123611107626180.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_RIGHTTopCarousel

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

I think that extrapolating that someone with poor credit is a bad/unreliable employee is really a stretch.  I'm fine with background checks, but they shouldn't do credit checks as part of the application process.  I have great credit, but it's easy to see from the article how there can be a downward spiral if you lose your job, can't pay your bills, then can't get another job because your credit suffered.

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

SEIT, no i didnt ask but i did google it online why companies do that.

for the record though "credit check" wasnt the reason why i didnt get the job.. another engineer was

RE: Are companies really requesting salary histories?

I don't respond to salary history requests, but if pressed, reply that it is confidential information within a contract between my previous employer and myself. In responding, I would potentially be breaching that contract, or as a minimum, guilty of passing on confidential commercial data.  You may then ask the retorical question - "Is this the sort of employee you want - one who is loose with company secrets?"

On a similar note, I reverse the situation on employment agents who asks for a salary expectation or day rate, asking them what is being paid.  Confidentially most will say what the incumbent workers are on, saving all a lot of time wasting.  

I genuinely believe most employers are not out to screw you for a few dollars and will pay what the market rate is, but in one job that I took in desparation, the company had recruited a bunch of verge-of-retirement expats who wanted to defer their retirement and were working for peanuts, thus lowering the bar for the rest of us.  I believe in naming and shaming - Ipedex from France was that company.  

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