Experience vs Degree
Experience vs Degree
(OP)
Hi
I went to a 2 year collage where I received a Diploma in Product & Interior design. However, I have now been working as an assistant structural engineer for 1 year now.
I have since enjoyed my work and learned a lot in the process. I work mostly with making CAD plans and 3D modeling. At times I have helped with calculations in staad or similar programs.
I am very curious however, what my prospects look like. Considering my education had nothing to do with engineering. And when could I expect any other company to be willing to hire me, if I decide to switch companies?
Thanks
I went to a 2 year collage where I received a Diploma in Product & Interior design. However, I have now been working as an assistant structural engineer for 1 year now.
I have since enjoyed my work and learned a lot in the process. I work mostly with making CAD plans and 3D modeling. At times I have helped with calculations in staad or similar programs.
I am very curious however, what my prospects look like. Considering my education had nothing to do with engineering. And when could I expect any other company to be willing to hire me, if I decide to switch companies?
Thanks





RE: Experience vs Degree
If you want to be an engineer you've got to get back to study. Have you asked your current employer about your prospects? Maybe they will sponsor you.
RE: Experience vs Degree
I havent asked my employer, but looking around, it takes around 6 years before managing a project. And I think sponsor me isnt possible... Its not a big company
And wont I learn more by working? rather than going back to school?
RE: Experience vs Degree
In any case, without an actual engineering degree, your future job prospects will be severely limited.
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Experience vs Degree
RE: Experience vs Degree
- Steve
RE: Experience vs Degree
There might be a few states that will license you without a degree, but you need so much experience under a PE that it becomes a little ridiculous really.
RE: Experience vs Degree
I'll stop here before someone calls the metaphor police.
-Kirby
Kirby Wilkerson
Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.
RE: Experience vs Degree
The degree will expose you to some concepts that are not often found in actual design. The problem is that for 95% of structures those concepts or issues are not going to affect the design. However, we are paid to recognize when these obscure issues may be a problem.. often, designing a beam or a column is fairly straightforward, provided you understand a few of the fundamentals..
Much like a doctor who sees 100 patients and 95 of them have a cold... he is mostly paid and trained to recognize and diagnose the 5 other cases. Maybe one of those is very serious and it takes medical school to figure out what it is and how to treat it..
RE: Experience vs Degree
A degree in Interior Design sounds more like an architect focus which is very different from math oriented engineering degrees.
My specialization in school was for structural and back when I was applying for those types of jobs, the companies had me take simple fundamental written tests to see if I knew what I was doing. Doing plug and chug calcs in the computer and doing calcs by hand on a piece of paper with pencil are 2 very different things.
Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog
RE: Experience vs Degree
Chris
SolidWorks 09 SP4.1
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Experience vs Degree
It is a step above drafter, but without further formal education -advancement will be limited as you can't oversee or direct the design without a PE License.
That does not mean you couldn't be a Project Manager. Typically these folks do not actually design anything, they coordinate projects by distributing the work, organizing the drawings, making schedules, setting up meetings, interfacing with the client etc.
From where you are now I would guess it would take about 10 years of experience.
A 4 year degree (Businesss etc) would help.
this message has been approved for citizen to elect kepharda 2008
RE: Experience vs Degree
RE: Experience vs Degree
Without the degree, you are probably limiting your range of knowledge, as schooling often provides a much broader scope of topics than most actual jobs. This will limit where you are qualified to work from the beginning, as you may have experience in some areas but ZERO in others.
In addition, you are asking the company to take your word for your qualifications. There isn't a school "vouching" for you. Some companies will be more willing than others of course. Some companies like rules, and if the job description says you need a BS, they will throw out your resume without it. Other companies may look over your resume and say, "Well, he/she doesn't have the BS, but has worked on similar projects and might be worth talking to." However, the lack of degree is another limiting factor here.
And finally, I suspect that some companies willing to hire an engineer without a degree are just looking for whoever can get the job done and will expect the least pay. Not to say that somebody without a degree could never be a good engineer. However, I suspect the "best engineers" without degrees are the exception, not the rule. Similarly, I suspect that the best companies to work for hire degreed engineers for engineering positions. Again, there may be exceptions, but...
-- MechEng2005
RE: Experience vs Degree
Reality is that without a degree, your resume typically heads to the round file before any others headed that way.
We can sit here and argue about it, but nothing will change, and nothing should. It's a simple and effective gate. More people are qualified for an engineering job with a degree than not. More people are unqualified for an engineering job without a degree than not. It's simple probability exercise; do you want to spend most of your time interviewing qualified candidates or unqualified candidates?
I've interviewed someone with a degree; he had to trot out a folder of certificates and commendations, but where is the equivalent of ABET for a certificate? And if he were that good, why couldn't he figure out how much a 15% raise would be?
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Experience vs Degree
However...
They were all in their 50's 60's and had started their careers in the UK when a lot more people came up from the drafting board to become actual engineers.
They had also done formal Apprenticeships that included a fair chunk of book work, probably equivalent to a US associates degree or maybe more.
So while I wont say it's impossible for you to find other jobs or advance yourself, you face an up hill struggle and as mentioned above, getting licensed, which is important in structural engineering as I understand it, will be difficult if not impossible.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Experience vs Degree
However, I have heard of electrical engineers who do commercial building work training workers without engineering backgrounds to be project managers, but I don't know specific details.
RE: Experience vs Degree
I served a 5 year apprenticeship in the UK, got City & Guilds certificates and a National certificate in various engineering subjects. Even though in a lot of companies I could do the work assigned, I was still held back by the fact that I did not have a bachelors degree in engineering.
I got around that, by starting my own business and hiring people with the smarts I did not have.
If you have the opportunity go ahead and study for your degree. Go ahead and get it. Several years down the road it may be the difference between having a good job and being unemployed.
RE: Experience vs Degree
Then comes the Principles and Practices exam. It's the one that determines if you have the skills to practice engineering independently as a licensed professional engineer. If you decide to go the Structural Engineering route, in many states you'll be required to take TWO exams beyond the FE.
All of that is not easy. If you want to be an engineer, those are the hoops you'll have to jump through. To shortcut the process, go to engineering school. You can become licensed in a meer 8 or 9 years, not 12 to 16 years.
Very, very few people who have not gone through engineering school are successful in passing both exams. It's possible, just not probable.
RE: Experience vs Degree
I disagree that someone without the degree cannot get the theoretical knowledge. I know that learning technical matter from a book is much more difficult then in a classroom environment. But in-the-book learning is just as possible as on-the-job training. One of the key skills learned in achieving a 4 year degree is how to crack a book and figure it out when needed. But all those books are available and many are free at your local library.
-Kirby
Kirby Wilkerson
Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.
RE: Experience vs Degree
Maybe "can't" wasn't the right word, but "highly unlikely" is. I'm just thinking out loud, but we spend a minimum of 4 years in college, then come into the job knowing virtually nothing about how things really get done. Our technical knowledge takes a bit of a back seat as we try to learn how the office works, how to balance the theoretical things we learned in school with practical issues like constructability, cost, schedule, etc. Someone who doesn't have the theoretical background before starting the job has to learn it all on the fly. That's a tall order for even a gifted person. Certainly the bulk of knowledge can be gained, but a deep understanding is necessary (IMO).
I think this is especially true when integrating computer software into the job. While you may be able to plug and chug and pull answers out of the computer for most designs, it is critical 1) that you verify what the computer is doing is correct and not just blindly accept the results, 2) that you have a complete understanding of exactly what the software does do, doesn't do, it's limitations, and it's assumptions, and 3) a thorough understanding of all of the required inputs, and defaults.
This isn't the easiest thing when you're really learning how to design from the software that you should be checking.
RE: Experience vs Degree
- Steve
RE: Experience vs Degree
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Experience vs Degree
RE: Experience vs Degree
Perhaps I'm being a bit too cynical, but if you are going to spend the time, effort and MONEY going back to school getting a degree - get it in a field that pays you real money and has some stability.
Engineering - particularly structural engineering - does neither.
Contrary to what those on this board think - your prospects without any degree at all are about the same as those of a P.E. if all you plan on doing is design. seriously, industry is off-shoring this stuff to peasants in calcutta. and licensing boards are powerless to stop it.
There is the "law" - then there is enforcement of the "law". 2 totally different things.
Engineering is on a race to the bottom.
Go into health care (pharmacy, nursing - yes, I would be a male nurse for $100K/yr, P.A.) and take grandma for as much medicare money as you can before she croaks.
I say this as a P.E.
my $0.02
RE: Experience vs Degree
Fe
RE: Experience vs Degree
You need a vacation on a tropical island, without a phone ,or the Internet, for at least a year, or until you get to thinking " It wasn't too bad" after all.
B.E.
RE: Experience vs Degree
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Experience vs Degree
Just out of curiosity, why do you think that the law regarding a PE registered in the state being in responsible charge is not enforced? I know it is in PA.
Not only do our drawings need to stamped/signed/sealed (as I'm sure is true in all jurisdictions), everything that we farm out as a performance spec is required to have calcs submitted by a PE registered in the state of the project.
We've also done many projects where we had to write a letter of "substantial completion" to the local building official (which also needs to be signed/sealed in most cases). We've had one of those letters rejected because it wasn't signed and sealed.
I think that local jurisdictions, for the most part, enforce the local laws.
All of that being said, I do agree with you that there is not much money to be made in engineering. You can make a good living and live comfortably, but you'll never get rich (speaking of most folks, anyway).
RE: Experience vs Degree
The real problem with jurisdictions is that they dont check calcs, general competency of design work, or special inspections .....allowing the bad PE's to develop bad practices into industry. That can be a thread in itself.
RE: Experience vs Degree
What planet do you live on? I don't see this happening at all.
RE: Experience vs Degree
It is quite insighful.
Id like to add that I dont live in the US / canada.
Im from europe.
RE: Experience vs Degree
Well you'll just have to move here so that this thread can apply to you. But seriously, I don't think additional schooling toward a degree would ever be a bad idea. Good luck.
-Kirby
Kirby Wilkerson
Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.
RE: Experience vs Degree
RE: Experience vs Degree