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How to prepare for a business in 3 years
3

How to prepare for a business in 3 years

How to prepare for a business in 3 years

(OP)
I have about 2 years of bridge design experience. Once I earn my PE, I would like to start my own consulting firm in low-rise building and facilities design. I don't have much building design experience, but it's what I learned in school and I enjoyed it much more. Finding a job as a structural building engineer with less than 4 years experience and no PE is next to impossible right now. I would like to know what I can do to plan for starting my own business about 3 years from now. Some ideas I had were to volunteer to help freelance engineers on nights and weekends to get a better feel for building design. Also, to eventually offer preliminary engineering services to clients (for free) under a s-corp which could then be checked and verified by a freelance engineer (at cost to client). This would allow me to maybe become a cheaper option to clients who would have no risk or cost in using me to get an idea of what type of structure they are looking at, and if they find the design acceptable, they could pay for it's check and verification. Also, in the year leading up to me going solo, I could build up a potential client list, build a financial history for the corporation (easier to get bank loans down the road), and provide the freelance engineer with work.

My questions are:

Does this seem like a reasonable approach for where I am in my career?

Where can I find a full set of drawing and calculations for a small building, such as in a final design submission, so that I have a better idea of everything involved?

What are some really good books for low-rise building engineering, and/or starting a consulting business?

I am basically looking at designing very small one or two story buildings or garages. Possibly even houses. If I am successful years down then line, I may partner up with a more senior engineer so that I can continue learning while I work for myself.

Am I being realistic here, or am I not seeing the picture clearly. Please try to be encouraging and optomistic, instead of shooting down my ideas. I'm looking for a plan for the future. Thanks.

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

Are you saying you only have 2 years of engineering experience, or just 2 years with bridges?  I ask, because I would not feel comfortable having someone design a safety-critical component like a bridge I walk/drive on with only 2 years experience, same as I wouldn't feel comfortable having a piece of medical equipment attached to me that was designed by an EE with only 2 years experience.

If it's the latter, that changes things a bit...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

(OP)
I have two years of experience since graduating.  Don't worry.  All the work I do is thorougly checked 3 times before it is approved.  How else do you think engineers are trained?

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

My two cents

I think your target is very positive and if it is what you want to do, go for it.

I also think that your timeframe is very tight and probably unrealistic. Setting your own consulting business and fly 'solo' with only 5 years experience working on something in which you are not gaining experience now ... well it is a bit too much.

Advice?
If it is your dream, go for it, but be rational and careful about how you get there and how long it takes you.

Set a realistic schedule. As I said, before you set up your business, you need an appropriate level of experience on that particular field.

Do NOT go SOLO unless you have the experience required. It is not fair to your possible clients and it is dangerous for everybody

Try to change jobs to work on something related to what you want to do (I know, easier said than done) to gain that experience

I would NOT work for free. You set up a precedent (why should I pay you good money for something you did for free last week?) and it might violate profesional rules in your jurisdiction (unfair competition).

The scheme of working for free but having another engineer checking it,... well there are so many things wrong there I do not even want to comment.

I would NOT do any work on the side. It is not fair to your current employer and they probably have rules against it, even if it is in an unrelated field.

I would look for somebody very experienced on the field you want to work on and drop by for a talk with him. Maybe he can offer to mentor you or direct you in the right direction.

I would look into further education or courses in that field.

Good luck!

 

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

All the building applications submitted to cities and counties are public domain. You can request copies of them if you're willing to pay the nominal charge for copying documents. They should include the plans and calculations.

Cedar Bluff Engineering
http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

you are not a registered engineer. you cannot legally offer engineering services to the public without that PE. Even if you offer your services for free, it is illegal. A better approach is to do as kelowna said - change jobs and get real building design experience working under a registered engineer.

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

I just turned 31 and have had our business going for over a year now.  I partnered with someone older with more experience and another guy who is a bit older than me who specializes in certain things.  I think at 31 with just pure grading experience I don't have enough experience to do some of the work on my own.  At the same time you ask why would someone older with more experience partner with me?  Well I still have a ton of design experience that we can bounce back and forth and have some connections for new work.  I don't have my PE just yet either as I concentrated trying to work as close to 80 hour weeks during the last 5 years.

BTW don't work for free.  Companies are already mad that people are lowballing right now.  The places going super low are getting a reputation, so even though people want the lowest bidder, they are starting to catch on.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

Brandon,

80 hour weeks mean you work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, if you take 30 minutes off from lunch. I'd be surprised if you have been doing that for 5 years straight.

Cedar Bluff Engineering
http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

I was doing it for 3 years.  But at the job before was doing over 60 for 2 years.

I was doing 15+ hour days easily, out here in SoCal some companies were running around the clock if there were people willing to work the hours.  I was working on things that weren't that normal just because I had some strange will to want to work work work.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

I made lots of money money money especially for my age in the civil field, though the slowdown has eaten my savings pretty nicely.  Hopefully building comes back eventually this year.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

(OP)
I know my timeframe is a bit ignorant considering the knowledge required to run my own outfit.  I guess I'll set my goal for 30 years old instead, a good 6 years down the line, and try to get a few years of building design experience as I near it. Thank you all for your responses.    

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

get yourself a partner with a PE and a lot of good experience. Make a business plan with him that you will work to take over the business over time. You can start as soon as you find your partner.

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

I don't see that many PE's being a partner that is totally green though.  I would definitely make it known to people you come into contact with what you are planning to do.  I always mentioned my goal was to start a company by 35, and have had Project Managers joke about working for me.  Some past coworkers have even asked if we are busy enough to hire them on right now. =p

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

2
Building design is a completely different animal than bridge design.  As a CONSULTANT, people pay you for your knowledge and you have none right now.  I've done both bridge and building work. I thought when I made the switch I'd be ready to go solo in four years.  Now I'd say to be really good at what you do in buildings you need a miniumum of 6 years or 8-10 years preferably.  For your years in bridge design, I'd say that's worth about 6 months towards your 6-10 years. (you've learned how to use cadd)

If you can't find a job doing building work, I'd go around to different small firms and see if they'd let you work nights (after you got off your present job) for free. (Hopefully you don't have a wife or kids). Many small business owners doing buildings will be at work long after 5:00 pm

 

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

That working for free at a small firm is really good advice.

I wouldn't mind helping out someone who would me ask me to help them out on the side.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

A star for you, structural... that was the point of my original post.  I feel you simply do not know enough about design work with just a few years of experience under your belt to strike out on your own.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

Also, let's not forget that even if the original poster gains the experience needed to be a competent building engineer, he still needs to develop a healthy client base to stay afloat.

Most architects already have good working relationships with other structural engineers.  All the ones you would want as clients certainly do.  Unless, you call around offering a significantly discounted rate, you may have a hard time getting work.  

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

abusementpark:  That's very true.  We always offer to do retaining wall calcs on our grading plans for a pretty good price, my partner can do these by hand in his sleep.  But the architects always have their structural do them.  The more jobs we get the more I am realizing how tight Architects are with certain disciplines.

The client base right now is hard to get since so many people are hurting and doing some true undercutting.  Some bids are so low that I would make more money working at McDonalds than bother trying to go close to another's price.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

Quote:

All the building applications submitted to cities and counties are public domain. You can request copies of them if you're willing to pay the nominal charge for copying documents. They should include the plans and calculations.  

Do most local agencies allow this?

It seems like in a post-9/11 United States, a random person would have a hard time getting their hands on the plans of a prominent structure.

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

For LA City you can take out the Microfiche for 60 minutes but cannot trace the screen.  We did this to see an example of how a soil nail wall slope mitigation was done for the city.  I can't believe how fast I could sketch a plan and details.  The only way to pull plans like that is with a written authorization from the architect or owner of the project.

Other cities are not as strict.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

The rate you charge should be based on your abilities and experience in the field. It doesn't matter how new your business is, it matters what your own credentials are.  If you don't have the credentials to compete reasonably, wait until you have them.  Charging for free now will alienate you from everyone in the field and create a brand image of poor quality and incompetence.

Kalen Smith
Engineer-a-Business
http://www.engineer-a-business.com

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

Personally I'd charge what the market will bear rather than some nebulous assessment of my abilities and experience. Or is there a lookup table , you know, 30 years of experience, able to leap small kerbs at a single bound=$134 ph?
 

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies  http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

1stTime,

I have 1 yr of bridge(while I was still in school) and almost 4 years of building design experience.  I'll be sitting in April for the PE.  The firm I work for does low rise, high-ride, residential, commercial, k-12, inductrial...you name it.  I pretty much manage 3-4 jobs at any given time and at various stages... My goal is to open a consulting firm one day and I feel I need at least 10 yrs of solid design experience and I would never do it alone.  

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

djh-

you have four years of experience and are managing 3-4 jobs by yourself at any given time? What size jobs are these? My firm will not let you manage any jobs until you have a PE unless it's a small, pretty simple job - but even then a PE is intimately involved and checking over decisions.

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

1stTime;

Technical skills are only about 40% of what you need to be successful consultant. You need many years of experience, marketing, website technology, small business accounting and people skills.  All those skills can't be acquired in 3 years.

Your shortest path, in my opinion, would be to work for a very small but highly competent firm.  If you can find an owner that is looking to retire in 7 to 10 years that would be better. Learn how they get work, how they price jobs, how they avoid difficult clients and how they prepare plans and calculations.  Concurrently, subscribe to Entrepreneur magazine, visit http://www.smallbusinessschool.org/ read "Million Dollar Consultant" and "How to swim with sharks without being eaten alive"  Also visit Barnes & Noble and read the just released small business books every few weeks.

Then you need to save about 18 months of living expenses + start up costs.  It takes a while to establish a consulting practice.

When I went on my own the first time, I only had 8 years of experience under my belt.  That business lasted 7 years.  I was undefinanced and was lacking many marketing skills. Further, the locale where I lived was not growing.

This time around, I corrected all my previous errors but didn't forsee this deepcession!:)  We survived due to marketing and willingness to take work few hundred miles away. It is very satisfying work. It is great that you know what you want-just over prepare and be patient.


p.s: Most of the succesful engineering firms were started by individulas in their late thirties to their mid forties.
 

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

For what it's worth, I think it's a good goal to start your own company.  Too many engineers have that as a goal but then put limitations of "Once I have more experience" or "Once I've lined up enough clients" etc. etc.
And before long, 40s have come and it's too risky to go on your own.

At least when you are young, you can afford the risk. It may take more time to really get established but hey, might be worth it.

RE: How to prepare for a business in 3 years

StructuralEIT,

The project sizes vary... Currently the largest is a 4 story commercial structure (design).  Also, managing (2)large high schools in CA phase.  I'm surrounded by PE's, everything is checked.  Each project goes through a few layers of review.

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