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ASME to PED
8

ASME to PED

ASME to PED

(OP)
as usual I always get the tough problems, well at least in my area.

A collegue has a cliant in Ireland that is interested in buying a new surplus packaged gas treater in the US and ship it to Ireland.

The packaged unit has pressure vesels and piping.  The original U1A's and MTR's are available.  welder test reports and all inspections and hydrotest are included.

Is there a company, consultant, process, red taper cutter, bribe (ok not really ethics is still a priority), but a legitimate process that would transfer the ASME code vessels and piping to PED?

RE: ASME to PED

First of all I would check in which category of the PED directive your item is.
The following link offers a free tool, that identifies the category on the basis of some data.

http://www.red-bag.com/engintools/ped.php

You may or may not need the aid of a notified body to comply with PED prescriptions, and this depends on the category your item is.

Please remember PED is not a design code.

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/pressure-and-gas/documents/ped/
 

RE: ASME to PED

Maybe Lloyds or Det Norske Veritas.

Greetings

RE: ASME to PED

You can also ask the customer what no(tified)bo(dy) they contact for these issues.

RE: ASME to PED

dcasto

You might want to look at thread404-265072: PED 97/23/CE substitude with ASME VIII, which is asking much the same question.

The way I've read the responses there is that PED is more akin to the American "Code of Federal Regulations" in that it sets down legal requirements.

While you might be able to use an ASME designed vessel to meet the requirements in both cases, just saying that something is designed to ASME doesn't ring all the bells and blow all the whistles.

Patricia Lougheed

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RE: ASME to PED

I haven't heard of any legitimate process to transfer the ASME code vessels and piping to PED. Ask your Irish client for nodified body in Ireland. I think that is the easiest way although Lloyds and Norske Veritas are both a good advice. A notified body will also help you to find the correct category for your vessel (they get paid for that).

RE: ASME to PED

There are nice pubs in Ireland, David
You've got a nice trip ahead,
I'm jealous.

RE: ASME to PED

micalbrch,
          Just for clarity - it's the manufacturer that catagorises his equipment - not the NoBo(he does not get paid for that). The NoBo just ensures that the pressure equipment complies with the PED (if it's in NoBo territory)

RE: ASME to PED

DSB123: The NoBo does not have to help, but a good NoBo will. I did not write that NoBo must catagorise the equiment. I wrote that they will help. That was perhaps misunderstandable. Sorry for that.  

RE: ASME to PED

(OP)
thank you all very much for your help.

RE: ASME to PED

dcasto,

Royal & Sun Alliance or TUV are the favoured NoBo's in Ireland if you need them.

Declan

RE: ASME to PED

For any category above SEP (Sound Eng Practice), the chances of getting something built to ASME approved to PED after the fact are slim... The welders need to be approved to PED procedures, the mfr's quality system needs to be approved by the NoBo, the materials have to be accepted under PMA (Particular Material Appraisals) which have more stringent requirements than ASME, etc.  

RE: ASME to PED

MrBTU,

Quite hard for a pressure vessel to be under article 3, paragraph 3.

RE: ASME to PED

I want to put some clarifications for equipment coming from outside EU. I'm in the same situation. I import some coils built according to ASME and as I know my notified body very well I told to for final examination (equipement Cat II, module A1). Unfortunately the mtrl certificate and some welding quality issue make the examination very hard. We tried to make mechanical tests to have 3.2 certificate but after investigation the supplier of components founded to be ISO9000 to PED. For the quality of welding I repair and retest. In final you should involve the notified body from the begining. Now I'm ordering pressure vessels from US and I ask the notified body the approval of document at each stage (stress analysis, material certificates, traceability transfer procedure, PQR, WPS, ASME inspector involvement, NDT operator qualification, hydrotest procedure , PMA...). So I recommend to involve the notified body from the begining. Some are EN standard oriented and they swere only on EN standard so they don't accept pqr according to ASME IX without additionnal tests. Other are more flexible and tried to find solution to meet the PED requirements.
Good luck.

RE: ASME to PED

Ione,
We've built and shipped many pressure vessels under article 3, para 3.

RE: ASME to PED

Depending on what PED categories the vessels are in, the original manufacturer would need to provide the CE marking and declarations of conformity (to the PED).

The best chance of success is if the inspector involved in the original manufacture and testing was also a Notified Body. I don't think the NoBos in Ireland would want to take this on. I tend to agree with MrBTU - the chances of achieving PED compliance after the fact are slim indeed.

If you managed to find a way down the certification trail, then the vessels would still likely require rehydrotest, as PED requires 1.43 x Max Allowable Pressure as a minimum. That would be the easy part though.

Cheers,
John

RE: ASME to PED

Mr. Btu,

I didn't say it is impossible and if you usually do, I believe you. Anyway speaking of non-dangerous gas (group 2), it requires Ps*V<50 to be under article 3, para 3 (table 2). Just to make an example a vessel with a max. allowable pressure Ps of 1 barg must have  a volume V < 50 litres.
 

RE: ASME to PED

JohnGP,
       You say that a the PED requires a hydrotest of 1.43x Max Allowable pressure as a minimum. The plant being to ASME would have required 1.5 x MAWP so testing is covered (i.e. 1.5(i.e. ASME) > 1.43(PED))

RE: ASME to PED

DSB123,
My apologies, I assumed the vessels were built more recently under ASME VIII requirements that insisted on 1.3 x MAOP. If they are much older, then I would guess that getting PED certification would be slimmer than slim.

Cheers,
John

RE: ASME to PED

The Notified Body is not allowed to certify the pressure vessel unless they have made controls during the manufacturing process. If the vessel is finnished before they are involved, they have no possibility to endure that the PED is followed during the production of the vessel.  

RE: ASME to PED

Yes, it all depends on the Category that the items fall under, but perhaps I should have said that the only chance of success is if the original inspector was also a NoBo.  

RE: ASME to PED

JohnGP
PED Article 3.3 can be imported without any declaration of conformity. But it still under PED regulation.

DSB123 and ione,
for hydrotes ASME VIII div 1 requires 1.3 Pd with taking into account temperature. PED requires 1.43 Pd and taking into account temperature. I saw an annex Z to ASME that list how ASME meet the PED requirements.

Doffen,
It depends on the equipment category and the notified body. I am about to import vessels categry II from US and approve them following module A1. I require a technical file (mainly manufacturing file) from the manufacturer, I complete and submit to our notified body. We fixed some issues and vessel are shipped. the NoBo will come next month to hydrotest some of them and certify that are conform to PED module A1. it's the second time that I do like this.

I think also for the other category there module for which NoBo is involved only at the final surveillance stage but of course with technical file examination.

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