Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
(OP)
Does anybody know of a standard or similar document pertaining to piping requirements for the use of nitrogen gas in a clean room.
Most of the stuff I have seen is pertaining to keeping the atmosphere on the outside of the pipe clean - nothing on what is inside the pipe.
The project is a design/build so the engineer and contractors are all part of the design process.
We designed/bid type L copper that is oxygen cleaned and installed per most of the requirments of NFPA 99 - without the 3rd party certifications.
The client said this was not sufficient and they want type 316 SS with butt weld fittings.
The issue is the client did not give us purity requirements for the nitrogen, did not give us information on what the equipment would be that would use the nitrogen - so we went with what we felt was the best.
They said we should have known in a clean room, you don't use copper piping.
In hospitals, copper piping is used for the medical gases, so that is what we went with.
I have looked a bit on google and cannot find any standards or documents that would show one side or another.
I thought I would post it here.
Most of the stuff I have seen is pertaining to keeping the atmosphere on the outside of the pipe clean - nothing on what is inside the pipe.
The project is a design/build so the engineer and contractors are all part of the design process.
We designed/bid type L copper that is oxygen cleaned and installed per most of the requirments of NFPA 99 - without the 3rd party certifications.
The client said this was not sufficient and they want type 316 SS with butt weld fittings.
The issue is the client did not give us purity requirements for the nitrogen, did not give us information on what the equipment would be that would use the nitrogen - so we went with what we felt was the best.
They said we should have known in a clean room, you don't use copper piping.
In hospitals, copper piping is used for the medical gases, so that is what we went with.
I have looked a bit on google and cannot find any standards or documents that would show one side or another.
I thought I would post it here.





RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
**********************
"The problem isn't working out the equation,
its finding the answer to the real question." BigInch
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
Copper can't be used because it will put copper in the N2 which is damaging to some of the oxide layers.
Regards
StoneCold
RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
For me, it is just a word edit in the spec.
For the installing contractor - it is $$$$. He bid copper, the client comes back with wanting SS.
We (engineer and contractor) agree that SS is more applicable, given what we know now about what they want to do with it.
The issue is what was required when the RFP was issued. This is just one of several issues involved with this particular project - the client just seems to be sticking to his guns on this one.
Is there any standard or document I can reference?
The project is on a military base and even the standard they have for clean rooms does not mention pipe materials.
RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
http://cleanroomforum.com/
**********************
"The problem isn't working out the equation,
its finding the answer to the real question." BigInch
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
>> HEPA filtered air?
>> workbench types?
>> other equipment in the cleanroom?
>> changing room with air shower?
>> where the nitrogen goes in the existing cleanroom?
For process gases, we used to clean/degrease with LOX, but that was done by the facilities guys, so I don't know the details.
TTFN
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RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
The nitrogen is coming from a bulk liquid nitrogen tank.
The clean room will be used for high end electronics. There is an air shower, HEPA filters, etc.
We know "now" that stainless steel is what is desired and needs to be installed. The client (lab users) have told us that if copper is installed, they will just tear it out and install the stainless.
The real issue is what direction was given - which was very vague/misleading - initially.
That is why I am looking for some type of documentation that gives guidelines/direction for piping materials in clean rooms.
There is a lot of undocumented "this is the way it is done" - but I cannot find any documents that states, "this is the way it will be done".
RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
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RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
You apparently bid a job that required a certain level of knowledge and expertise that your company didn't have, to wit, my previous background was semiconductor, so I instinctively think of nitrogen piping as 316SS with Swagelok fittings, and I've only seen copper piping in low end applications.
It sounds like you're trying to lay the cost back on the customer; good luck with that. 316 is customary for this industry; your company's lack of experience in this industry is now paid for.
TTFN
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RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
The documents we received to bid the design were "poor" at best - something the owner acknowledges. This issue is just one of many such issues for this project.
Nowhere did the owner state the purity of the nitrogen - just that it was coming from a bulk tank. We design nitrogen systems for hospitals using bulk nitrogen - so, in the absence of clear guidance, that is the direction we took.
We are designing the HVAC systems in the clean rooms per the appropriate documented standards for air cleanliness. We have HVAC engineers who have experience with clean rooms - they state they have seen copper piping used a lot.
But there is nothing I can find as to the type of piping to be used in the clean room for the gases being used.
If copper is a problem (on the exterior of the pipe) - then there will be other problems where lab vacuum and compressed air are being run in copper (oxy cleaned)
There is also an issue that not all the labs are clean rooms - where stainless is likely overkill.
I am looking for a document that says we made a mistake in specifying copper or a document that states we are ok.
I don't think one exists.
RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
I would find out if this type of documented information is available.
RE: Clean Room Nitrogen Piping Requirements
http://ww
http://www.arcmachines.com/appPages/masca02.html
htt
TTFN
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