Trumpf or Bystronic ?
Trumpf or Bystronic ?
(OP)
Hi i am looking to buy a new laser and have narrowed it down to either Trumpf L3030 Trulaser or Bystronic`s Byspeed, i am sure that they will both have much the same performance, i am more interested in reliability and consumables.. anyone had any issues with what they have?





RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
and the Bystronic Bysprint pro 3015 4.4kw
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
As far as changing the glass, it has a lot to do with laser gas quality and at what power levels you will be using. Doing power checks on a regular basis and any time you put a new bottle of gas on the laser is the best thing you can do to get the most life out of your laser. On the older open loop controls checking the power is really easy, on the newer closed loop controls it takes a little bit more effort to see if the new bottle of gas is causing a lack of performance. Either way, after you learn what to look for you'll know when something isn't right.
I've seen customers run their laser at 100% power for weeks on end, then they'll switch to a job that only requires, say 70% power for a few weeks..... Murphy dictates that this will be when your gas supplier will give you a bad bottle of resonator gas. You wont realize the gas is bad running at 70%, and you'll empty that whole bottle along with all of it's contaminants into your resonator. When the bad bottle is empty you send it away, a few days later you run a job that needs 100% and the resonator can't do it. On top of that, the smoking gun has left the building.
Remember the part where I said to check the power output after you put a new bottle of laser gas into service? This is why I don't recommend resonator gas supply systems that automatically switch between bottles. In my opinion, automatic gas change manifolds are more trouble than they're worth. I wrote a paper on my experience with them, if anyone wants a copy, send me a message.
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
If you have an RF laser with a singe RF generator running multiple plasma tubes, what can happen is if the gas is contaminated some of the plasma tubes won't light and all the RF energy will dump into the remaining tubes that are lit and cause them to run hot. This excess heat can damage seals and possibly damage the glass.
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
I don't work for them anymore but I'm still a big fan. I'm sure some countries don't have a service network and certainly this should influence you decision. But other than that, I'm sure that Amada has the lowest cost of ownership of any of the big manufactures.
They do use more Nitrogen when cutting Stainless but that is really only the weakness I am aware of.
I went through the attached document and up dated the prices. I honestly feel it is a good representation.
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
I can add some labor estimates to that document if you wish. I have no idea what people charge in the UK but the amount of hours to preform the labor should be the same.
Keep in mind that any CO2 laser is subject to bad gas of course. In the US the cases have been far less in recent years than in the early ones. There still is the possibility. If I was making the decision I would look at the things we know are going happen. Mirror change, Blower change, Glass change.
On the FANUC 4kw laser the tubes last about 30,000 hours. I forgot to add that to the spread sheet. Sorry. That does add about $0.40 cents to the hourly operating cost. I have had them last longer but they need to be cleaned periodically in order to make that happen.
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
As far as operating cost, lasers that cost less to purchase/operate usually produce less. Best advice is to talk to as many people as possible and see what experience they've had. In addition to cost and production rate, there are many things to consider, i.e.-
How many parts of the machine are made by the manufacturer? Are they building a complete system in house or are they buying resonators, controls, whatever, bolting them together and slapping their name on it?
Can all maintenance be done by the user? Or does the machine require periodic factory service?
Can a user buy any replacement part they need or do certain parts have to be replaced by a factory rep?
Laserninja- you mentioned the Amada uses a lot of n2 but I don't see it anywhere in your cost per hour sheet. Which brings me to another point, the cost per hour varies widely depending on what you plan on doing with your laser.
Buying a laser isn't easy, do your homework and talk to as many users as possible.
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
The nitrogen cost is hard to quantify because it depends on what is being cut. I wouldn't want to say that the machine is going to consume $12,000 worth over the course of a year when the shop only cuts steel.
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
As for N2 consumption, it's more important now than it ever was. With the higher power lasers available now, more users are cutting steel with N2 for a cleaner cut and to get away from the speed limitations of cutting with O2. Unless the edge of an O2 cut part is cleaned, paint or powder coat will not stick, most new users learn this as an unpleasant surprise.
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
RE: Trumpf or Bystronic ?
sdudley