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Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

(OP)
I got an email from a head hunter earlier today.  He didn't give a lot of details, but it's a small world and I recognized the opening he's trying to fill.  It's been listed on the company's website for a while and I've been thinking about applying for it.     

This might be a naive quesion, but is there any advantage to working through a head hunter?  Do they help in the negotiation process or do they just try to make a quick buck and move on?

Thanks,
John   

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

When I was out of work, they were useless for me.
IMO, they are for the quick buck. They also have a thousand resumes for each position. They also don't know anything about the positions.

Chris
SolidWorks 09 SP4.1
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

You might cut through some potential roundfiling of your resume if you work with the headhunter. He will also redraft your resume, in my experience. Take your version along to the interview to explain any lacunae.



 

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies  http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Some companies don't hire _except_ through recruiters, and sometimes only through a particular recruiter.  There may be, er, commercial relationships of which you are not aware, or just a comfort level, or more common now, the company's HR department comprises one overworked person who outsources pretty much everything.

A good recruiter will only present you for a job for which you're well matched, may coach you a little on things like what to not brag about, and may do a little selling on your behalf.
A bad recruiter will try to hammer you into any open hole, regardless of the actual fit.
There's no way to tell the difference until the process begins.  Some big outfits are staffed entirely by 'bad recruiters'.  Some big outfits have some local offices staffed by 'good recruiters', and some not so good.  You have to feel your way around, and keep your own list.

Listings on company websites often lead you into third party "resume generators" that mostly manage to present you in the worst possible way, and probably to the worst possible decision maker, that overworked HR minion.

IMHO, even if you can identify the company, you're probably better off with a good recruiter.

Don't do both, i.e. talk to a recruiter _and_ apply directly for the same position.  Recruiters talk to each other, and it may not make a good impression on the hiring manager either.
 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

i have applied to companies, unknowingly, both ways at the same time.  During the interview the hiring manager has said that they received my resume direct first so they weren't obligated to work with the recruiter.  Worked out well for me because I was hired by both companies that this happened at.  Actually at one company they had my resume for 2 months before they got it from the recruiter so I think the recruiter kind of lit a fire and got them on-board to fill the position.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

What Mike said has merit.  But in a long line of job opportunities for me, I can recall only ONE recruiter who actively took an interest and genuinely advocated me to the hiring company.  Most in my experience are utterly worthless & unethical hacks who are filtering the words on your resume, shaving off your square corners and trying to force you into a round hole.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

My current position was thru a head hunter. I do not think I would have got the job thru a direct contact as it is a bit different from what I have been doing in the past. I also caution against going after a position both directly and thru a recruiter, I have lost a postition due to double submittals.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services
www.infotechpr.net

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

I would suggest that the fact that you've seen the posting, and there's now a head hunter calling, means that they've not had any success,and have called in a head hunter to help find candidates.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

When I was looking about 3 years ago I talked to a few head hunters and they did nothing for me.  Ended up submitting my résumé to an ad I found in the newspaper and it was the right job for me.  My suggestion is to keep a detailed list of every place you submit your résumé to, so if you do use a recruiter you are not double submitting.  I would also suggest you not allow a recruiter to submit your résumé except after checking with you.  If the recruiter does help me find a job I wouldn't feel bad about his cut, but I sure am not going to give him a cut for a job I found on my own.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

My experiences are similar to many here.  I have had my resume submitted to a position that I directly applied for.  Though my submittal was the first received, they cleared it with the head-hunter before hiring me direct.  It was no problem, as the head-hunter was hungry and wanted to keep a good client.
Another time, I've had a job shop calling me at work yelling and threatening me because I had been inadvertently submitted by two shops for the same position.  While they wouldn't have been much good at helping me out for awhile, I would have no qualms using them again if I was looking for contract work.
I first saw my current position advertised in one of those free weekly employment papers, and figured it must be a come-on (the company was much smaller at that time).  When I saw it again advertised in the local newspaper six months later, I submitted my resume and was hired.
The main thing to get out of this is to keep an open mind and do your best to properly read the situation.  If this position is local and for a small to mid-sized company, I would be strongly tempted to apply on my own.  Depends on the company itself.  If it is a large company, it may be best to use the head hunter, as he will probably be more familiar with their "culture".

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

My experience with recruiters is from the hiring side.  I did not contact a recruiter to fill the position.  He saw my ad for the job opening and contacted me with a candidate.  I ended up hiring the guy he was representing, and it was not a good match.  

For one thing, the candidate's qualification in his resume had been stretched beyond what he was really capable of.  I also found out during negotiations the salary requirements the recruiter had given me were much lower than the candidate was willing to accept, and the salary range he had given the candidate was much higher than I was willing to pay.  The recruiter had references he said he checked, but the guys performance after I hired him didn't match what the references supposedly said.

I'm sure there are good recruiters and bad recruiters and everything in between.  However, I have heard a lot more bad stories about recruiters than good stories.

Phil

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Never make the mistake of thinking or believing that a recruiter works for *you* and is *your* agent.  the recruiter works for the following people, in this order:

(1) the recruiter;
(2) the company asking the recruiter to forward candidates;
(3) then, and only then, the candidate.

I have never had a positive experience with any recruiter or recruitment agency from any angle.  To them, it's all about making the sale and getting the commission, and nothing whatsoever to do with ensuring the quality or suitability of the product being marketed.

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

I was hired at my current position through a recruiter here are my observations.

1) My recruiter in particular was an excellent coach in preparing me for the interview at the company I now work. I know of another recruiter in the same firm who was absolutley terrible at this, your results will vary wildly.

2) His advice regarding salary discussion was to ask for thier "best competitive offer". I didn't know why right at the time but this became clear soon enough.

3) After passing the two rounds of interviews the recruiter worked with me on salary. By this I mean he asked me what my minimum was. This was at the depths of the stock market collapse in may 2009. I added up all my costs, tacked on $500 a month plus taxes and an extra $5000 for the year and told the recruiter that was the absolute lowest I go and still support myself and my Wife. When the offer came in it was exactly for my minumum for my salary (no surprise there).

4) Up till this point things were great, but heres where he made a mistake. The offer had a two day expiration for acceptance, since I was still working this gave me one evning to read through and mull over thier 48 page employment contract. The recruiter called up and put a huge amount of pressure on, to which I responded "I sign nothing without reading it first". This was apperently not enough because he claimed there was another candidate who was cheaper (not as much experience), and I would lose the spot if I didn't hurry.  This was a bold faced lie. I confirmed this after about six months of working here.

Be warned, and always look out for yourself.
  

A question properly stated is a problem half solved.

Always remember, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it!   

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Headhunters often have the ear of the hiring manager and are more likely to land you the interview.  Some are paid based on the hiring salary, so they have an interest in getting you the max.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

"based on the hiring salary, so they have an interest in getting you the max."

No, they have an interest in negotiating a deal. A bit here or there is not an issue as much as getting a deal.  To do that, they need the buy in of the company.  They have a better shot a repeat business from them, not you.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Fine, TDAA.  It never happened to me.  I'll throw away my direct experience in favor of what you think.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

My experience was along the lines of TheTick.

Went through the whole process with the headhunter, nailed the interview, and the headhunter told me they would get back to us.  He and I had talked salary ranges, but nothing specific. A week later he brought me "their offer".  It was fantastic, so I accepted.  I only found out later that he had played hardball with them, using me as the stiff.

Well the co-owner on the finance side never let me live it down
"For what I'm paying you you can't get this done in XX hours",
"We lost a bid becuase we were too high, no wonder with your salary" and on and on.

He had other issue too, but 4 years of this was no fun.

IC
 

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Usually, if you're going for a contract position, the company pays a particular hourly rate to the headhunter, they take their cut off of that, and you get paid the rest, hourly.

If you're going for a direct hire position, then TheTick is absolutely correct. They get their cut based on your starting salary, i.e. it's in their best interest to get you the most money possible.

V

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

I am always suspect when I get a call from a headhunter who lives five states away and is trying ton get me interested in a position five miles away.

drawn to design, designed to draw

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Quote:

I would suggest that the fact that you've seen the posting, and there's now a head hunter calling, means that they've not had any success,and have called in a head hunter to help find candidates.

I would suggest the head hunter found the job opening on the company website and is looking for people he can submit for the position.

I had a job interview once through a recruiter and the hiring manager mentioned that he was encouraged not to interview applicants submitted by recruiters because the company didn't want to pay recruiter fees (he made an exception for me based on my resume).  He said many recruiters submit candidates unsolicited.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

(OP)
Thanks for all the responses.  If I apply for this job, I'll go directly to the company, not through the head hunter.

Thanks,
John

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Are you 100% sure it's the same job?  It may not be.  There might be two jobs out there for all you know.  Why don't you go direct to the company and the next day go to the headhunter?  Then, if there are two jobs out there, you have 2X the chances of getting one, and if it is the same job, the company can decide whether to give the headhunter his commission or not.

Good luck,
Latexman

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

I just want to add that while the one company I mentioned above didn't want to use recruiters, many do.  Many HR departments use them instead of filtering through resumes themselves.  Many recruiters also have direct inroads to the hiring managers and can bypass HR.

Everything really depends on the recruiter.  I think MikeHalloran's advice above is good.  If you find a good recruiter (either the one that contacted you or one you seek out yourself) and let him know you're interested in that job it could better help you get in the door.  

 

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Latexman; I have had situations were the fact that I had been submitted by a contract agency and by my sending in a resume myself prevented my getting the position. It may be that a company does not want the headache resulting from the recruiter making a stink and decides to look elsewhere.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services
www.infotechpr.net

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Use your knowledge of the available position to your advantage.  You've already thought of applying, why not go directly to them and let them know that you were aware of the position before being contacted by a HH.  You can save them a lot of money by interviewing directly (although they might have to pay the HH something if they get an unsolicited application...chances are it will be less than if the HH brought someone to them)...anyway, showing them that you are someone who would be brought to the table anyway and that you can save them money in the process, might get you an offer.

Try it...what do you have to lose?

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

PeterStock,
I had a similar thing in my existing job.  I interviewed for a position through a recruiter, but I didn't like the job and told the recruiter that.  I never heard from him again until...  

A few months later I interviewed for a position in another department that two former colleagues (now current) set up for me.  I got that job.  Before starting the job I went to lunch with my future boss and I brought up the recruiter for some reason.  My boss felt he needed to let HR know so they could keep a good relationship with this recruiter.  The recruiter called me the next day to congratulate me and ask if he could help in any way (I had already worked out everything so he couldn't offer anything really).  I understand why my company decided to pay him, but I was pissed because the recruiter dumped me for not liking a job he sent me to (he should've known it wasn't what I was looking for) and he still got his pay day.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

The headhunter typically charges 20% of your first years salary as a fee for your placement, but that rate can be negotiated between the two parties. So if you have the oppurtunity to get the identical job directly thru the company then do it that way.
Some headhunters look thru the help wanted ads and then contact the company when they have a match for the job - I have no respect for them.
But like previous posters have mentioned they do have their place, and I have gotten jobs thru them, but I am careful at who I give my resume' to.

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

I have been hired once and received offers several times by using a recruiter.  Unless the company hires only through a recruiter, then it is often best to go it on your own.  On my last job hunt (two years ago), I had four offers.  Two of the offers were on my own and two were through recruiters.  The funny thing was, the jobs through recruiters required employment contracts with some pretty onerous terms (i.e., reimbursement of the company for recruiting fees if leaving before two years).  Needless to say, I took one of the jobs I found on my own.  No employment contract and I am very happy with my current employer!

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

My understanding is that if you are hired through a headhunter, you are actually work for the headhunter's firm.  You get headhunter's firm benefit, not the company you are in for a period of 1 year(or whatever arrangement they have).  

One benefit for companies using headhunters, they can terminate your easily if it doesnt work out and they dont have to go through the trouble canceling your benefits.

This is what someone told me so I am not 100% sure. I hate a middle man.  A headhunter is pretty much a middleman.  They take out a chunk of your salary.

Never, but never question engineer's judgment

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

CoEngineer - not necessarily, so in this case I'm questioning your judgementwinky smile.

They operate in two disctinct ways and the names overlap.

1.  Essentially a job shop - which is what you're talking about.

2.  Recruiter - they 'help' the company fill direct positions.

My current job was a temp to perm position via a jobshop/recruiter.  First few months I was employed by the job shop with any benefits etc. through them, essentially I was a contractor (though the meaning of this varies) after just over six months I went direct.

What I consider real head hunters specialize in higher pay/profile/nich positions rather than run of the mill job shopping.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

All depends on who the headhunter is I guess.  The man that pulled my resume out of thin air for my current position became a headhunter when he retired.  He was my former company's GM.  Depending on how big your field is, you may find that there are these "boutique" outfits made up of retired executives who can really grease the way into a company.  The advantage to this method is that they have their reputations to uphold as well, so it's more than just the $ to them.  He really tried to place me with a firm that matched my particular desires.  My specific guy actually had to give the my employer a "freebie" a few months later as the one guy he recommended ended up being a closet alcoholic.  Word to the wise: don't come into work on 2nd shift after a Super Bowl party where you've been drinking heavily and they can smell you ten feet away.  The guy blew over a 0.18 BAC when they took him to the hospital on suspicion of drinking...2 hours after he'd started his shift!

RE: Head Hunter vs. Direct Hire

Perhaps your goal is to have as access to maximum number of interviews and opportunities.... and you can turn down or screen out any that don't interest you at your own convenience.  In that case I don't know why you would exclude any avenue.... headhunter or other.

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