Moving up into management
Moving up into management
(OP)
I work in the electric utility industry on the generation side. I have been in engineering for the past 3.5 years since I graduated college. At some point I would like to move up into supervision/management. What kind of qualities do managers in this kind of industry look for when seeking to promote an engineer into management? From what I have seen it has little to do with being very good at the nuts and bolts end of engineering. A lot of it seems to be about one's perception of that individual. At this point I am not sure if I am on the radar for promotion to management or if I will be put on the subject matter expert track because of the nature of my work (steam turbine outages).





RE: Moving up into management
RE: Moving up into management
- Project management skills. Planning, timing.
- Delegation - hands-off but still with full understanding.
Then...
- As you climb the ladder, recognition of your boss' foibles. How to tick his/her boxes and provide info in the way they like it. (a.k.a. brown nosing)
- Steve
RE: Moving up into management
I might be doomed. I am a quiet guy who focuses on his work and gets the job done. My performance reviews have been excellent but that doesn't mean I will be chosen for management, especially if I prove to be an excellent project manager who knows the technical details of the job but also understands the importance of providing accurate schedules and budgets. The problem is there are too many bean counters and not enough people who know how to actually overhaul equipment.
RE: Moving up into management
- It's more important to be nice and seem helpful than to be very good at what you do. This is more critical when dealing with managers than with your peers, but see the next point
- You can't get far without the support of your peers, and managers know this. If you're roundly despised and can't get anyone to do anything for you without commandments from above, you're unlikely to be highly promotable.
RE: Moving up into management
To revisit Delegation, get to know the strengths and weaknesses of the people you work with, as one day they will work for you. Then, when it comes time to assign tasks, you can give teh right task to the right person... win-win for everyone.
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
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RE: Moving up into management
Also, consider your managers. Which do you think are good, and what would you like to emulate about them. Many managers are stronger in some areas than others (like the rest of us) look to see which areas which are strong in and try to understand how/why/what...
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Moving up into management
First, being very good at your work is no guarantee to being promoted from engineering into management, and it could actually be detrimental to getting a promotion. The point being that if you are good, people typecast you and they do not want to move you because replacement is a hazzard. I was talking to a career consultant once and se mentioned that it is more effective to be OK but not very good, something called 'strategic innefficiency' or something like it. Carefull though, I am not advocating everybody starts to underperform at work!
Second, you are assuming that promotion into management roles will be performed by upper management based on careful consideration of your performance, habilities and prospects. In my experience there is a lot more 'randomness' on the process. You were available and somebody else was tied on a project, nobody wanted to relocate to that location, somebody left/got sick/went on holidays, you went for drinks with the boss and he thouth you were witty, you dress nicely, there is an opening on another department and the boss wants to get rid of you because your works sucks (see point one)...
RE: Moving up into management
RE: Moving up into management
If you are enamored with solving technical problems, then management might not be suitable for you. The hardest thing for many new, and some old, managers, is to LET GO of the technical. As a manager, you have "people" that do the technical, help them do their jobs by staying out of their way as much as possible.
TTFN
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RE: Moving up into management
RE: Moving up into management
I've spent 11 years in engineering management, relocated and took a pay decrease to avoid it. I still get pestered.
If you like what you are doing, stay with it. The grass is always greener over the septic tank. Being aesthetically impaired and, as my wife tells me, socially challenged, is not a good combination for management. If you can take a kicking and keep on licking, it may be for you.
RE: Moving up into management
RE: Moving up into management
One of the frustrations that I see from engineers who were promoted to supervisors early in their careers is that there aren't enough reliable people to delegate to. On top of having to deal with all of the management politics, some of them still have to get involved in things that an engineer should be taking care of. And some have complained that the money is actually not as good because as engineers they were making more money with the overtime (paid at the straight time rate).
In regards to me being an engineer and project manager, my reputation speaks for itself. Even if I am not on the company's list for promotion to management, I think definitely have a job running projects because I do it well. If I ever did go into management, the deciding factors would be the need to get out of the field and into high level project management and to make more money. If I could make a lot of money doing what I do now, that would be great, but I know it won't happen unless I move on to other employers or eventually become a consultant. I am still a very young engineer but I am being put in charge of some of the most critical overhaul projects and I am getting paid a young engineer's salary. I will get some raises due to standard promotions within the engineering cycle but beyond that the company has no incentive to want to pay me more money.
.
RE: Moving up into management
Where I work now, most of the senior management has been recently replaced. Every one of the replacements is a personal friend and / or former co-worker of the guy in the corner office.
RE: Moving up into management
to me it looks like you want to be in management just for making more money. What are your visions, what do you want to improve?
Once you have been promoted to middle management you will realize that the job is not as easy as it looks at first sight ("if it looks easy – in ain't"). Most of the time you are a bidirectional pulse damper.
Kind Regards,
hahor
RE: Moving up into management
The question is whether or not if I got paid the money I want, would I rather do what I do now or get into higher level management? At my young age I think it would be pre-mature to start climbing the ladder but if an offer ever comes, it would not be a good career move to refuse it. I have 3.5 years in. I've seen other engineers start moving up the ladder at 5 years.
RE: Moving up into management
a) being screwed over in pay
b) spending too much
V
RE: Moving up into management
Love your term - bidirectional pulse damper. Perfect! I believe I'm going to have that added that to my job description next time it comes 'round for review.
RE: Moving up into management
RE: Moving up into management
Normal path is that you gradually make more money as you gradually pay down your debts. Eventually, you reach a point where you have no more debt.
Getting back to the topic. In all honesty the best way I've seen to get into (corporate) management is to:
-suck up to your bosses
-as ivymike pointed out, be better at being nice and helping people than your job
-be prepared to step on people that you probably get along with
Either way, good luck.
V
RE: Moving up into management
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Moving up into management
It has taken my wife and I 20 years, but we have experienced a 40-fold improvement in our finances. Its not that we are extremely wealthy now, I just had enormous debt and zero assets when we were married. We drove a lovely excrement brown 1977 Pontiac station wagon, that we picked up for $200, for the first several years, and lived in a small house that should have been renovated a century earlier. At that time I was working blue collar making less than 15,000/year, no bull.
It takes time and patience. If you have decent skills and a willingness to work, which it definitely sounds like you do, you'll do fine.
RE: Moving up into management
Besides credit debt, transportation is a big one. I drive so many miles per year...over 35,000 just to get to work. My job has been moving me around quite a bit, so until I get a permanent assignment my commute is 120 miles per day.
RE: Moving up into management
Frugality is a discipline thing, and I'm certainly no exemplar of that, but there are teachers that can retire with a half-million in savings, so that's something that nearly every engineer should be able to achieve.
Even if there is no 401K, some sort of payroll savings deduction will remove money from the spending pool.
TTFN
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RE: Moving up into management
moving "up" into management is a rear-gaurd action... if you know what I mean.
RE: Moving up into management
RE: Moving up into management
At the end of the day there is no golden rule apart from the fact that you must be what you are and not change your personality to make career. You can act like an actor for a week or a month but not forever. Keep that always in mind! If your bosses do not see you as a manager, you will be in the wrong company. Managers (your bosses) are humans, too. They have their own personality and their thinking is most probably different from yours. They expect certain things from a manager candidate and you might not meet that. That is no problem because it does not mean they are right and you are wrong. It is all about humans, beleive me. I never asked for a promotion in my life and got a few because I was lucky with the people (humans) in the higher positions. It is o.k. that you think of your life, your wife and the future. And it is o.k. that you think about money. But don't let only the money ever guide your personal decisions.
RE: Moving up into management
I can't act, and I wear my heart on my sleeve, and I know I'm getting the few staff I have down, since I'm getting more frustrated every day with the situation and regretting making this move. The things that bothered me at the salaried position now seem trivial in hindsight, compared to the 60 hour weeks, working weekends, and the effect on my family life. Oh yeah- and for no additional income, but the promise of a bonus IF the company makes a profit this year.
The challenge I have is to try to get someone into the office that I can pass the work onto, so I can get out of the business environment I've found myself in. I have too much concern for the Projects and Clients and don't want to leave things in the middle of project delivery, and leave the mess for the other people to clean up.
I may be a very good technical engineer with a lot of practical experience, but when it comes to "management", I now know my limitations.
RE: Moving up into management
TTFN
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RE: Moving up into management
I like my job but it can also be stressful and require me to work 12 hours per day, 7 days per week like I am right now and not provide any additional financial benefit. If I am going to spend most of my time at work and deal with the mental stress, I might as well find a job that will pay well enough. However, one has to be careful not to increase the cost of one's lifestyle whenever their salary increases.
RE: Moving up into management
RE: Moving up into management
TTFN
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RE: Moving up into management
My perspective come from having been managed and mismanged as an engineer. I've done some small project management, but I'm still learning and growing technically. So take it with a grain of salt.
To move up within a company or in a career you NEED to develop your soft skills, period. I don't think you need to put aside your technical knowledge though. See post:
The key to getting ahead is not technical..
thread731-190566: The key to getting ahead is not technical..
I also feel the anti-management culture of engineers is based in some reality. I read a post somewhere that spoke about how smaller projects being farmed out to service companies in the oil&gas industry has created a shortage of good engineers. Why? because young engineers out of college got to work on small stuff and learn the ropes, even if it wasn't profitable. You trained your staff.
Try an learn all the angles. Just as we are not fond of management, we are loathed by many hands-on field people. The field is a great place to learn foundations for technical and non-technical management. As they said in Full Metal Jacket "Get in the S^%T". This way you can make good evaluations on a true projects costs.
On the other side of the spectrum learn the business lingo, wheather you get an MBA or not. There's always Barnes and Noble, and a secret place which holdes arcane knowledge.........The LIBRARY. If you do get an MBA, go for a technical MBA or with an Idustrial Engineering Degree.
As for wealth and rising the ladder I think it takes a long term view 3.5 years is nothing. Get your PE, get active, move arround 2-5 years withing the company, and sell yourself. If loud mouths can do it with no substance, you can do it with substance.
Good Luck!
RE: Moving up into management
RE: Moving up into management
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