×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Welding to 1898 era steel

Welding to 1898 era steel

Welding to 1898 era steel

(OP)
A client wants to add canopies to his building. The canopies would be attaching to steel lintels supporting multi-wythe brick walls. The lintels consist of two 12"x20.5 'C' shapes with 3/8'' plates top & bot. According to historical records construction was completed in 1898. The earliest ASTM spec I can find is ASTM A9, dated 1900. It lists Fy=35 ksi and Fu=60 ksi for 'Medium' Steel. Should I spec 60xx welds?

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

Not knowing the weldability of the metal you will be working in the blind. Only if the forces are relatively small should one tackle the issue this way, I think. Are the plates of the Cs welded, or taken to angles with rivets?
 

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

(OP)
ishvaaag, plates are riveted to flanges of C's. Lintel forms a box. Will be welding to web of C's

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

get a chemisty test done- it costs like $100 then you'll know exactly what to spec

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

Best to get coupons cut and tested for chem content.  Some early stuff can be wrought iron or even cast iron. I can post a CE spreadsheet that I've put together for other projects.

Dik

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

A quick test is to weld a CS tab perpendicular (1 1/2 x 1 1/2") to the

web and try to break it off.  Try a few licks the hard way and then bend

it off the easy way, it should break in the weld.

If you have and feel inclined here is a CS electrode (Cronotron 321, not SS) that I've used to weld some vary old and crappy steels,  The welder will love it and probably take any leftovers home.
 

http://www.lawsonproducts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&;storeId=10001&productId=75932&catpath=All+Products%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch%3DWELDING+PRODUCTS%2F%2F%2F%2FWELDING+ELECTRODES
 

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

(OP)
Dik, I would appreciate that spreadsheet. Thanks a bunch guys

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

The weldability can vary from one member to the next. They had no need to control carbon, sulfur, or phosphorous when everything was riveted.

You should have a chemical analysis performed on a sample of each member that is going to be welded to ensure the carbon equivalency is relatively low and the S and P are below 0.04% to minimize hot cracking problems.

You can deal with sulfur is you make sure the manganese content of the weld is 10 times higher than the sulfur content of the steel. I don't know of an easy fix for excessive P other than to use low hydrogen practices, i.e., E7018  that has been stored in a heated electrode oven.
 

Best regards - Al  

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

I would first be concerned about the condition of the lintel. In that age building, it may have significant corrosion.

Secondly, I agree that you need some chemical analysis to find out if it is weldable, but welding a tab to it and see if you can break it off will undoubtly tell you more.

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

(OP)
jike, the lintel is in excellent condition. No corrosion anywhere. This is in a semi-arid enviroment. I agree with welding the tab.

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

Aside from the tab in my previous post there is an even quicker test, though much more severe.  That is to weld a 1" dia (inside) circle using one or two circuits depending on how severe you want to be.  

 

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

I've used nickel based electrodes for welding cast materials in past... I'll try to dig up a procedure.

Dik

RE: Welding to 1898 era steel

I second the use of Hollo-Bolts; they work well. Many years ago I worked for an old timer - who started out in the 30's as a welder - he was adamantly opposed to welding to turn-of-the-century/early 20th C. steel.  He would say it wasn't unusual to hit a carbon pocket and blow a hole in the steel.  

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources