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SE Poll

SE Poll

(OP)
Forum Poll.
There are several regular contributors to this SE forum. I suspect there a large number of lurkers too.
Out of personal interest what version are you using and which category do you fall in to?

1.    ST2
      a.    Trad
      b.    Sync
      c.    Combination
2.    ST1
      a.    Trad
      b.    Sync
      c.    Combination
3.    V20
4.    V19
5.    Older Versions

Do you use any of the above through personal choice or company enforced?

Food for thought!
 

RE: SE Poll

ST2 Traditional, (SEEC & Tcx)

We just migrated from V20, as a company we aren't ready for synchronous yet.  

RE: SE Poll

Version 20

RE: SE Poll

ST2 Traditionnal for 98% of the time.

I have a Fundation licence.

I use Sync for small project that can serve as training time. I'm not convinced yet that I can use Sync on a regular basis.

I choose SE back in 2003 with V14 and never looked back. Unfortunately that's the only Cad software besides AutoCad that I used since then too.

Patrick

 

RE: SE Poll

Whatever version the client happens to be running during my contract.
Currently ST1 traditional.
Previous client (up to last Dec) is still running V20 because they can't afford the loss in productivity on a live project going to ST interface.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

Where would we be without sat-nav?

RE: SE Poll

I use SE/ST2 Classic - mostly in the traditional env.

I have already done a training for the sync env.
But after the training I used it once or twice for a real (small)project but nothing more than that.

I am self-employed, so yes I decided to buy SE 5y ago.
But I decided in october last year to stay for one year on maintenance (ST3).
And if there are no huge changes in SE traditional, I will quit paying maintenance. And probably change to something else.
But I also must say I love to work with SE.
But since they introduced ST and the awfull new UI without asking the customer I certainly changed my opinion about Siemens PLM.
I think we still need a lot of things in the draft environment. Like tools for (very)fast placement/alignment of dimensions, changing tol. mutch faster. Automatic recognition of threads to say something.
Like you can see not big things, but things that just needed to be done.
In the part environment I am quite happy except off the placement of holes and the lack of predefined features.
(Again this can be done easily if they just want to spent some time for it.The beauty of it is that all these things already exist-because many of us already made them, so they only have to collect them ! Just do it.)

So basically they are running behind the competition in a way. Because they spend all the money they have in ST, I think there are not so many people waiting for this new direct modeling tools we already have in the trad. env BTW.

And yes ST will have a future ! but not now ! except if they can make it in one or two versions workable like we use the tools we have now.

RE: SE Poll

(OP)
Thanks
even with 5 replies a theme is beginning to form.

RE: SE Poll

V20
St1: no
St2: sporadic (trad.)

========

The last poll done in May 2009 had this result:

Total licenses by those who participated 550 (as per 4. May .2009)

- V20 or lower  = 372  = 67,7%
- ST (trad. or ST)  = 178  = 32,3%

dy

RE: SE Poll

(OP)
seems that things haven't changed much, eh!
anybody that matters reading? doubt it!
 

RE: SE Poll

If you have new tool it has to work at least as well as the old one or it will just get left under the bench and never used.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

Where would we be without sat-nav?

RE: SE Poll

We're still on V19, but I also have ST2 as a dual install.

We usually upgrade every second release, because every upgrade  usually forces us to upgrade our PDM system (which has lots of customization). But with ST1 I advised my boss not to do the upgrade and wait for ST2. My reasons were the following:
-GUI. I don't mind the fluent interface too much (love it in Office), is it better that the old one? No, but not a deal breaker. My problems were with the lack of customization, yes we had the QAT, but it was really lacking features (like reorganize). Also the new vertical ribbon bar is a disaster.
-ST. Most of the thing we produce are rotational symmetrical and when I played around with ST1 I saw that it was really hard to place dimensions to a circular surface. So back then it was a cool technology, but something we would hardly ever use in production.  

That was then, now I'm really lobbying for an upgrade to ST2, main reasons being:
-SE Simulation, if this had been in ST1 I would have pushed for us to upgrade back then. It's has exactly the right level of features. All the hardcore analysis we send to our team in India anyway, but to be able to do the more basic stuff in house is really great. And yes we have Femap Express, but that is a sad little product.
-Live sections, removes the problem I had with placing dimensions to a circular surface.
-Better GUI, it's still not optimal, but it's getting better.
-64bit, not a new feature in ST2, but it isn't available in V19 and we are starting to switch over to 64bit Windows, so it would of course it would be nice with a 64bit SE.

If we do the upgrade I still think 95% of all order related modeling will be done in traditional env. there are still too many things missing in synchronous (assembly features, suppress feature with a variable and some other things).

RE: SE Poll

Hi,

> SE Simulation

not that this is not part of 'Foundation' nor 'Classic' it's
part of the new bundle 'Premium'. Whether available as separate
module is not known. In any case extra $$$

dy

RE: SE Poll

@Raaden- ST2 is 64 bit, but if you are using Embedded Client (SEEC), it is only 64 bit for XP & Vista. They are not supporting Win 7 yet. And you can't use 32 bit on Win 7 either, that doesn't work, I've tried it. They said ST3! And that isn't coming out until Oct or later. They seriously dropped the ball on this one.

RE: SE Poll

Yes Don, I'm aware that it will cost more $$$. So far I haven't seen any prices for SE Simulation neither as separate module nor as for the premium package, but I don't think it will be too steep. Plus we will be turning to Classic licenses to Foundation. And even if it will cost and arm and a leg I still think it's worth it.

@fun4sparkie- We're are not using SEEC and we are still on XP (Sigh!), so there is no problem with upgrading

RE: SE Poll

Hi,

I've found some prices (in Eur, net without VAT [value added tax])
the prices may vary (recommended retail price)

- Premium (nodelocked) 11,000.00  floating 11,150.00
  Premium bundle
  - SolidEdge Classic
  plus
  - Xpress Route
  - Wireing
  - Simulate
  
- Simulate as separate package (SE Foundation or Classic required)
  - nodelocked 4,350,00  floating 6,960.00

dy

RE: SE Poll

ST1 Combination.

Because my University gives me no choice!

Anthony

RE: SE Poll

ST1 Classic - Traditional

Will be upgrading to ST2 - Traditional next week.

Will be turning on Synchronous for our machine builders, but not for product design with the exception of a Synchronous Assembly template for SE Simulation use (it only works on Synchronous Model files, so you have to insert Traditional assemblies into a Synch Assy file).

Ken

RE: SE Poll

V19, cause anyone else who used to help with upgrades has been laid off and I have too much on my plate to worry about little things like this.  

Actually, want to go to V20 fairly soon.  Holding off any any ST because I just can't see finding the time for all our users to get on the new interface.

Also, our local Siemens office has had a massive reorganization (lay-offs) and now suck.

I'm just waiting till we go to Solid Works, 'cause between the interface change and their crappy customer service Siemens has shot their selves in the foot.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: SE Poll

Hi

Using ST2 in both traditional and synchronous mode

Paul

RE: SE Poll

Exactly, if we're being forced to change interface with the resulting productivity hit, the thinking is that maybe that makes it time to change to a software that many of our vendors use and which has an influential fan base and which other divisions use which have a PDM system for it we might be able to piggy back...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not gung ho about changing and have some idea of what's involved having been caught up in this kind of thing at my first job.  However, the things Siemens have done haven't helped their cause.

 

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: SE Poll

(OP)

Quote:

which has an influential fan base

Should be, an enthusiastic fan base! smile

RE: SE Poll

I started in a new job last week using solid edge ST2. I've done every tutorial and then some over the past week. Yesterday I did some quick & dirty concept models & sub assembly in ST. The senior designer wants to use ST but I honestly think it sucks and would rather use traditional. I have 12 years on autocad & ProE plus 10 on solidworks and some training+2-weeks experience on UG NX4. In fact, I prefer SWX but will now be using SE which is ok as traditional works fine and is similar to SWX. I think siemens made a mistake with ST.

RE: SE Poll

ST2, synch for 90%+. Use this by choice on my seat.  

RE: SE Poll

Karmoh, is it good or bad I'm listening sad

rcass, you might look at it another way. Traditional is comparable to how SWX works so you are covered and at the minimum sync is nice for imported parts. Plus, PTC, Autodesk, SpaceClaim, Dassault all have or are coming up with similar non-history technologies. So, as the technology matures, you are covered there too.

ST UI, yea, could be better. Many of the CAD applications switched to a ribbon and it hasn't been easy sailing for anyone. ST2 UI is better and ST3 is going to pull in a lot of customer UI enhancement requests from what I'm hearing. It is vaporware right now, I know, but only for a few more months.

Mark

RE: SE Poll

(OP)

Quote:

Karmoh, is it good or bad I'm listening sad

Hi Burhop

Good all good :)

RE: SE Poll

(OP)

Quote:

It is vaporware right now, I know, but only for a few more months

.....so keep paying the maintenance fee and one day you'll get........

RE: SE Poll

V20 98% of the time ST2 2% and that's about all the time I can afford, given it's ridiculous inefficient GUI. As far as Sync goes that's still only good for editing "some" existing parts, but for the experienced user, building model's from scratch with Sync offers no advantages over History based modeling in my book.

Maybe by V7... wasn't that about when Solid Edge finally was a viable solution?

Bob Mileti  

RE: SE Poll

ST2.  Sync 80% for part and sm. Always use sync assemblies to take advantage of editing capabilities. Frames which are trad only are pulled into a sync assembly before parts are added.
tony

RE: SE Poll

That's interesting Teebar. If you always use Sync assembly, it means you're giving up family of assemblies and inter-part copies. I can't imagine myself working without those tools. Can you give me an example of a typical product you do. I'd like to know if I could also benefit from this. Or maybe I have a completely different workflow than you?

Thanks

Patrick

RE: SE Poll

Hi Patrick
The majority of our work is bespoke automation plus jigs and fixtures.  With this type of work we often have to produce design concepts and multiple configurations to present to the client at tender stage.  So obviously we end up doing more concepts than actual machines.

For concept work sync is faster, easier to get ideas down and play with design itterations.  I would not want to go back to trad. for this type of work.  It has really been this work that has allowed us to learn how sync works and given us the confidence to use it in the "real world"  i.e a machine design.

We have just started work on V2 of a prototype completed last year for a client (more product development than our usual work) which was done on ST1 but mostly trad. with the odd small part in sync.
There are some major design mods to be made and so far everything has been done in sync except for steel framing of which there is quite a bit.   Obviously these are done in trad. but are then brought into a sync assenbly where components are added to make a sub-assembly. This was not practical in ST1 but works well in ST2.

In terms of FoA and IPC, yes that is true we don't rely on these tools. IPC is available but is not associative.  I think for a company producing a product FoA and FoP is worth the investment but we have never felt our type of work lends itself to its use.
Associative IPCs are good for models that need to be driven parametrically, but in the short time we have been using sync we havn't had a project that requires it.  Because sync assemblies allows you to move geometry in separate parts at the same time, we now rely much less on links e.g  between holes in a lid and a body.

We recently had to generate a complex curve and used Curve by Table in sync, but as the sketch is not associative we could not make adjustments via the spreadsheet. We had to revert to trad.  I guess this will eventually become a proceedural feature in time.

For us this is a journey we are taking because for certain situations it is a better way to work.  This will not be the case for everyone though.
That said, understanding how it works is key to success. Applying trad methods is a waste of time - even sketching has to be thought about differently.

HTH
Tony

 

RE: SE Poll

Thank you Tony for your detailled explanation. I do think Sync is good for quick design and it may be interesting for us because we do a lot of custom machines that get modified along the way. So far I haven't use Sync enough to get my head around the new techniques. But as I'm always looking to improve my workflow I may try a workflow similar to yours at least for a small project to see how it goes.

Cheers

Patrick

RE: SE Poll

Patrick
The hardest thing to get the hang of has been Live Rules and how these will be affected by locked dimensions amoungst other things. My advice is to only lock a dimension when absolutely necessary.  It is almost the opposite to trad sketch.  From there you turn on or off infered relationships found by LR.  Also, don't forget the small command bar which will change how a model reacts.

It can be quite frustrating until you get an understanding of how these new tools work.  Unfortuneatly Siemens have done a poor job of providing documentation to gain insight into this.  Maybe because it is better learnt through application, but I think this is why many loose patience and give up.  Until you get your head around these tools, you get a lot of yellow triangles with an exclaimation mark. If you persevere it starts to make sense.

The best resource for sync is undoubtedly Solid DNA. His examples can really help.

Regards
Tony

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