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CV/Resume Length
3

CV/Resume Length

CV/Resume Length

(OP)
Hi All

Just a quick question.

I'm currently writing my CV, and its coming to about 4 pages (A4) in length. I've been working now for the last 16 years, an have accumulated quite a lot of experience. According to the general rule of CV's, you should keep it brief and have a maximum length of 2 pages.

Q.
What do you think I should do? (2 pages and leave out lots of info, or 3-4 pages and lots of info)


Thanks

RE: CV/Resume Length

Too many pages will find it in the circular file before it is read. I am guessing you have a chronological CV. Try rewriting it as a functional CV, just listing the companies and then your functions in a separate section.
 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: CV/Resume Length

When I've reviewed resumes I wanted to see a single page.  I'm OK with a second page of publications, but if the work experience went to a second page the CV went in the trash.  I wouldn't even send rejection letters to people too lazy or too inept to summarize their experience into one page.  I'm not saying you are lazy or inept, but if I got your 4 page CV I would read the first line of the second page and throw it away.  Every opening I ever had received too many applicants to fight my way through rambling garbage.

My list of publications no longer fits on one page so I delete the older publications.  My basic CV only fits on a single page because of brutal editing.  Try it.  Cut it down so that in a 12 point font with plenty of white space you are able to get it on one page.  Be brutal.  Print it off and don't read it.  Wait 48 hours and pick it up and see if the missing stuff really changes who someone would think you are.  Mine didn't.  When I first did it I thought that I had cut the life out of it.  After a couple of days of not thinking about it I saw that what was left painted a better picture of who I am and what I can do than the 3 page version.

This is just me.  I'm not hiring any more so who knows what my opinion is worth.  In a job search you'll find jerks like me.  You'll find jerks that won't read a resume unless it is on non-white paper at least 30 lbm.  You'll find jerks that will never read a resume that is on non-white paper.  You can't please everyone, so you have to do the best job you can and roll the dice.

Good luck

David

RE: CV/Resume Length

I vote for 2 pages.  My 40 years fits on 2 pages.

RE: CV/Resume Length

I tend to do a fresh page per subject

First page jobs
Second page is training & education
Third page is work place skills set
Fourth page is references
Fith page is community social and personal

The first few sentences are large and bold and specifically relevant to the job applied for.

The rest is fine print just in case they decide they want to know.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm
for site rules
 

RE: CV/Resume Length

Two pages, accurate and concise but with enough detail to allow an informed decision to be made whether to interview me or not. A little bit of formatting just to pick out the important sections and make it more stuctured and readable.

I have a separate sheet of training courses which I might include or not depending on whether they were relevant to the position I was applying for, but it would be as a loose sheet and not attached to my CV.
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: CV/Resume Length

(OP)
Thanks for the replies everyone, you've all been most heplful.

RE: CV/Resume Length

The general standard is not more than 2 pages.

Also it is common not to go chronological more than 10 years back.

What I do is keep a 2-page resume. Once a company begins to "take the bait" I will either:
     1) Follow up with a list of publications/patents/etc in more detail (1-2 pages),
   OR
     2) If they should request a full employment history, I will send an extended full chronological history resume of more than 2 pages.

RE: CV/Resume Length

Hiring managers are busy people.  They don't have time for candidates incapable of summarizing relevant experience into a page or two.  If they don't see something interesting in the first half page, they move on.

RE: CV/Resume Length

What do we define as interesting?  

peace
Fe

RE: CV/Resume Length

Quote (FeX32):

What do we define as interesting?
Whatever is interesting to the hiring manager.  Good luck job hunting if you don't have a grip on that.

RE: CV/Resume Length

I by no means need a job. I was just curious on a take on that. smile

peace
Fe

RE: CV/Resume Length

If the top half of the first page
GRABS THE INTENDED READER BY THE THROAT,
the size of the remainder is irrelevant.

... also if it doesn't.

 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: CV/Resume Length

I use two styles of CV's, but since I'm not looking for a job, it probably isn't as relevant.  I use a full "Statement of Professional Qualifications" that is 18 pages long.  It includes employment, project type experience, publications, and courses taught.  I also use abbreviated subject area CV's that are generally about two pages long.  These are pointed to specific types of experience (structural, pavements, exterior envelope, materials, etc.).  When a request is made for my CV, I usually ask if they want the one that puts them to sleep or the one that wakes them up.  Some attorneys (the group most often requesting my CV) like the longer one, but others want the shorter one.  If I'm going to be deposed by an opposing attorney, I give the shorter one...it gives them fewer questions to ask!!

When hiring someone, I look more at the content, layout, and grammar/spelling usage in a resume than its length.  Most resumes are kept to a couple of pages, but if I find several typos, spelling errors, and mis-matched data, I consider that the person is careless and I don't need him on my team.  Perhaps that's a harsh, quick judgment but it's my decision and I'm OK with that.

RE: CV/Resume Length

Most of the resumes I see now have a section about how good the person is asa "proactive team member / leader etc". Does it add anything? Will you be penalised for not having it?  I do not know, but I do not read it! What do I look for when reviewing a resume is relevant experience, a degree (if relevant) and the chronology.

My own resume is down to 2 pages - references are available on request. When going through recruitment agencies I find that they do not really understand what engineers do nor the companies we work for (outside of the big ones). Often I am asked to provide a description of the companies I work for and detailed list of projects/tasks. This is always in a different style and does not look like a resume. This sometimes ends up with the recruiting company, but the interviewer only appears to read it if the first two pages have grabbed them.

My view is the covering letter (one page only) should be thing that sells you and directs the reader to the relevant experience that is summarised in the resume.

Tickle

 

RE: CV/Resume Length

I have a 1, 2, and 4 page resume.  I send out the one that seems most appropriate considering what the employer wants to see.  I also have a side list of representative projects of the type the employer is seeking that I have worked on in the last ten years - 2 pages, and a one page list of references in my hip pocket for good measure.
 
But don't follow my advice as I am still looking.  3eyes

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto:  KISS
Motivation:  Don't ask

RE: CV/Resume Length

What I don't have is a generic resume for public consumption.  Every resume I send out is tweaked for a specific opportunity.

RE: CV/Resume Length

Of course. Good luck getting a job if you have a generic CV.  

peace
Fe

RE: CV/Resume Length

My CV rarely gets tweaked to a specific job. It is always accompanied by a highly job-specific cover letter.

Chris,

Can you imagine using those anywhere outside of graphic design? If one landed on my desk I'd dump it in the bin, unread.
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: CV/Resume Length

Anything more than one page is risky.  I might go to two pages, but with only 15 years of experience, I am really only mid career at best.  

I average a job every two years, and have worked in many different fields, yet I can still fit most of that on one page with enough of a summary that they get a basic understanding of what I did.

If the experience is older than 10 years and not relevant, leave it off.  If you have been doing the same type of work for 15 years, does it really take more than a page to summarize?  If you are applying to a job that is in your field, you can leave out all the fluff.  Focus on the key words that that particular employer would look for.  And don't forget, that it may also need to get passed the eyes of a non-technical person.  

A resume get's you an interview. That's it.  Save the details for when you get in front of them.

Anyone that I know who has more than one page are manager level and above or have 25 to 30 years at minimum.

As a professional job hopper (No I am not proud!) I have written my share of them and have been complimented on them during interviews.

RE: CV/Resume Length

OK, it looks like the OP is in Great Britain so, I'd say ignore all the folks that want a one page resume.  As someone who's spent time in the US & UK the obsession with a single page resume is a singularly American issue from my experience.  Unless applying to a US company don't worry about going over one page.

You cannot write a CV that pleases everybody.  I've had things on a resume that someone that hired me really like.  Then I've had that CV/resume reviewed by an 'expert' in the field and the first thing they did was take that thing off.

It's compounded by the fact that your CV/resume often has 2 audiences, HR and then Technical/Management.  Actually, sometimes it can be 3 audiences at Technical and Management may have different ideas.

What MikeHollaran says is very good, if the first section grabs the readers attention then you probably have an in.

I would say that with few exceptions 2 pages is a maximum so don't go over that, leave stuff out if necessary or even better find a more concise writing style.

My personal pet peeve, is that a lot of advice these days says to give examples, not just general descriptions of what you've done.  Trouble is I've always been a bit of a 'jack of all trades' so by the time I put examples of all the wonderfull things I've done for each job duty I have trouble sticking to 2 pages, let alone 1.

Customizing a resume can help with this as you tune it to the job you're applying for, however this takes a lot more time.

And of course all this is jacked up by any online submittal process that at best usually strips any formatting from your resume, at worst requires you rewrite the entire thing in their preffered format in a way that it's almost impossible not to make it too long and/or miss stuff out.

(excuse my mixed use of resume & CV, I just couldn't keep it straightwinky smile)

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: CV/Resume Length

My own current resume runs to five pages.
Our HR guys says it's the funniest resume he's read in 30 years.
It only took me 43 years to write it....



 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: CV/Resume Length

Mine is two pages long.  It's been two pages since my third job.  I am in the "field" now for over 17 years with some self chosen gaps.  I typically tweaked my resume for each particular job I would apply for.

drawn to design, designed to draw

RE: CV/Resume Length

One sentence is all that's needed.........

HAVE SOFTWARE, WILL TRAVEL.
~THE CADSLINGER

RE: CV/Resume Length

My current resume is 4-1/2 pages long.

If people aren't interested enough to read all of it, they are under no obligation to do so.  Further, if their interest is indeed such that my resume is round-filed due to its length, then chances are I wouldn't be too interested in working for them either.

It's worked so far.

Looking at it from the employER's side, I like to see the chronology.  If it's well-written and shows the right skill sets and attributes, I'll take the time to read all of it.

Of course, spelling and grammar mistakes on the first page kind of turn me off more than would a ten-page dissertation in which the author has taken the time to run the error-checking tools.

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: CV/Resume Length

Spelling and Grammar are biggies.

Also, things that just don't add up.  I had one resume from a guy claiming so many thousands of hours on a certain CAD package, and it just looked too high.  Well I did the math and to get the figure would have meant spending 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, every year since he'd graduated, on the CAD package.  So unless he'd worked some really long weeks and/or never done things like send email, do some calculations, have meetings, go on vacation, be sick... which I found unlikely, then he was lying.

This was compounded by his claiming familiarity with some relevant industry standards but using the wrong designation or something like that for the standard.

Note I say lying.  HR may accept some exageration, recruiters and the like may positively encourage it, however to me it's lying.  I'm not saying don't maximize the impact of your experience etc. but don't lie, or exagerate to the point it could be considered a lie.  (See, I have some ethics.)

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: CV/Resume Length

I have a 1 and 2 page resume.  I generally use the 2 pager, and get good responses here in the US.  The 1 page is more for reference or blind apps.

RE: CV/Resume Length

Kenat,

A long time ago I co-interviewed an academically well-qualified guy who claimed to be 'expert in all areas of electrical engineering'. Man, did he get a tough interview. About halfway through his brain melted and ran out his ears.

Never, ever, lie on a CV. Especially about technical stuff. For my last position I was interviewed by the man who would eventually be my boss. At that time I didn't know he was the former head of electrical machine design at a very well-known steam turbine and generator manufacturer. I think he's forgotten more about generator design than I actually know in total; if I'd lied about my experience I'd have looked a fool and would have been shown the door (and rightly so).
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: CV/Resume Length

The opening paragraph, after the ident info, should summarize your general interests in terms of specialties and position. If this is general enough, you will garner interest. I listed 'filtration' as one of my interests and got hired on that basis. A few buzz words related to the hiring company in question helps.

RE: CV/Resume Length

I always include a 1/2 page covering letter that is designed to hit the buttons.

The actual resume is then arranged with about the first 1/4 page highlighted, outlining recent relevant, then in fine print, older relevant, then finally detail just in case they want to bother.

Each page has a subject as indicated in my earlier post.

Different employers have different interests and tastes and prejudices. I try to cater to all without repelling any

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm
for site rules
 

RE: CV/Resume Length

Scotty,
A friend of mine was asked a question in an interview about removing water from gas wells.  As he was building his answer in his head he flashed to the interviewer's name.  The name matched the name on one of the few hugely influential equations in this field.  The interveiwer was about the right age to have been the author of the equation.  My friend never told me what he had been about to say, but what he did say included a lot about uncertainty, the importance of understanding boundary conditions, etc.  He got the job and found out that the interviewer was THE GUY.  He's sure that if he had given his standard answer he would have still been looking for a job.

Telling the truth is never a bad idea.  Spinning the truth is an even better idea.

David

RE: CV/Resume Length

Those artistic resumes are so hard to read.  Some of them seem cryptic.

I have always cut my resume down to one page.  I haven't met anyone that really needs to put more than 1 page of text telling me about their experience in the engineering field.  There is just so much fat in what people write about themselves.

I just had to write a statement of qualifications for my company, and the main page is just 1 page with the company summary, and a list of pages for current projects.

I have seen others that last for pages and pages and pages.  Who has time to read all that stuff?

CDG, Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading in the Los Angeles area
http://www.CivilDevelopmentGroup.com

RE: CV/Resume Length

Kenat...excellent points about the length of the CV. As long as it is factual and well-written, I don't care how long it is...also, checking the details...it's like working with an attorney. If you add up their billable time, a 40 year old attorney would have to be at least 70!shadeshappy

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