CE Wiring
CE Wiring
(OP)
I am banging my head against the wall trying to find someone in my area that would be interested in making some money wiring up lamps in the European Standard - CE Certified. I have spoke to several labs and they will simply not give me the name of someone they have certified. They want us to go through the certification process and wiring lamps is simply not our business.If you could help me find someone, if you could it would be most appreciated.
Thank you,
Jason
Thank you,
Jason





RE: CE Wiring
Also, some information on what you mean by "lamp" might be helpful.
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
Thank you,
Jason
RE: CE Wiring
Thank you,
Jason
RE: CE Wiring
And this would be where?
(There is a reason this is called the WORLD WIDE web)
RE: CE Wiring
One doesn't need to be 'certified' to declare a product they manufacture conforms to the applicable directives.
Does your company actually manufacture the products; or simply import them?
If you import the goods, you may have work to do in persuading the manufacturer to invest in compliance if they don't already export it to Europe; unless you have enough bang as a buyer.
If what you mean is, the return from the market won't justify getting certification for your product, then don't do it.
If you manufacture the goods, you will have to invest in either having a consultancy advise you, or investing your own effort; and in addition any compulsory assessments by approved bodies if they apply. The product needs to be certified.
http://w
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ce+mark
You may want to investigate the Low Voltage Directive. This is not my field and neither are International standards, but look for harmonised standards; you may find the product should, by implication, comply.
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: CE Wiring
To Eng1ne: I do understand that our company does not need to be certified, we can even self-certify, but we simply do not want to do any wiring at our facility. As of now we only have a few lamps that need the CE (European Wiring). There are people out there that wiring in the European standard. We found one in Atlanta, but we would prefer to keep the business in Texas to save on freight cost or in closer states for that matter.
ScottUK: That would make the most sense, but we can not ask our factory to go through the certification process without knowing what kind of business it will bring.
RE: CE Wiring
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
"... we can not ask our factory to go through the certification process without knowing what kind of business it will bring."
You will have to pay someone and go through certification regardless of where you or they are in the world if you want to export to Europe. I would be examining the market before I even considered CE certification. You need to find out what business it will bring first!
Your reluctance and scepticism about certification and the market seem to provoke a 'quit while you're not behind' response!
RE: CE Wiring
I do not know anything about harmonised standards, but I will do some research on it here shortly.
export.gov - will show you what countries require what markings)
RE: CE Wiring
I think you're misunderstanding some of our posts. By "harmonised" standards, we mean if you're currently UL stamped, everything you need to check against to be CE-compliant may have already been taken care of by the simple fact that the design meets UL standards (therefore, the two standards are in harmony as far as your specific design is concerned).
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: CE Wiring
Simply put - we need someone who is CE Certified or self-certified that would like to take this stuff on.
I have heard that some UL marked items are accepted, but not for the country we are trying to get the lamp to.
RE: CE Wiring
"to put their branding and mark the lamp with the CE Marking in order to export it to our client." - you will make a lamp, or import a lamp, give it to another company so they can write "CE" on it and hand it back to you with a declaration of conformity?
Simply put - we need someone who is CE Certified or self-certified that would like to take this stuff on." - you also said: "To Eng1ne: I do understand that our company does not need to be certified, we can even self-certify."
Who makes the lamps? Who wires the lamps? Who is responsible for having the lamps certified to UL standards?
RE: CE Wiring
Global: That is correct! We have lamps wired overseas in the factory or we have someone local wire for our UL and CL markets. The company would need to be able to take it from UL to CE or the lamp will come with no wiring period and the company will need to be able to wire it (CE), place a CE marking, and give a copy of their certificate of conformity - that company will be responsible for anything that could come from a wiring related issue.
I know this is an easy process, but the business owners simply do not want to deal with any libility that could stem from a bad lamp or I woudl have laid this to sleep already. Though about doing it on the side, but conflict of interest.
eng1ne: Who makes the lamps? Who wires the lamps? Who is responsible for having the lamps certified to UL standards?
Global: The factories overseas or the Dallas local that does our UL and CL, both handle all of this.
I may just need to start a site and call it "CE Wiring for you". Maybe one day I might make it big off of this mess..:)
Jason
RE: CE Wiring
At what point does your company receive the lamps? As raw material, manufactured with no wiring, or as a workable lamp to relevant standards?
Someone might be able to clarify, but I'm not sure about separate companies declaring conformity to only a bit of a product.
By the way, the whole lamp needs to be certified CE, not just the wires? Like VE1BLL mentioned, it may possibly be subject to tilt tests for example.
I think you need to contact a consultant...
RE: CE Wiring
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: CE Wiring
CE marking indicates that you meet the specific standards that apply to that specific product and therefore you can export into the countries under the CE banner. Teddy bears sold into Europe need to carry the "CE" mark. It means they comply with the Toy Directive.
Lamps will fall under the LV Directive and all the standards relating to that directive. It depends what your lamp is going to do. If your lamp includes a SMPS or dimmer switch, as an example, then it will also need to comply with the EMC Directive. If your lamp is designed for underwater use or outside use then there will be standards that specify Ingress Protection (IP) etc.
If your lamp is a table lamp then also remember that in EU there are numerous plug types that determine the country. IN the UK you will require fuses in your plugs..etc.
Maybe contact this lot: http://www.elcfed.org/
no idea if they can help but mr.google brought them up first.
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
ACC Global Compliance - Dallas, TX
Company Profile: CE marking service for machines exported to Europe, in compliance with safety requirements established by the European Union. Services include on site electrical, EMC & EMI testing, on site technical & engineering assistance, documentation review & verification, design review, & CE type...
Good luck.
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
I did get in touch with a lamp repair company in Austin and sent them over some links to see if they are interested in getting the certification, so we can send them lamps to get ready for export. She seemed very interested and said she has a repair lady that has worked on European lighting with 6 years of experience. Slowly, but surely, I think I am getting somewhere. The hidden trade it seems...
RE: CE Wiring
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: CE Wiring
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark
RE: CE Wiring
Self-certification must mean something different in my part of the world...
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
What do you now plan to do?
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
Benta.
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
RoHS is a royal PITA, and it typically fails to solve the main problem it was touted to resolve... but it's still the law.
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: CE Wiring
I say should, because these will form part of your declaration of conformity - if you follow the proper routes!
The lamp isn't a 'substance', but like macgyvers said, the lead possibly used in your solder is! Some paints and pigments might include hazardous substances!
The only way you will do this yourself is if you follow the guidance on the authority's website with lots of attention, or employ a consultant!
RE: CE Wiring
I think you're quite confused with what CE means too though. Installing some wiring in a "CE approved shop" does not create a CE product. As already mentioned, the completed product is evaluated, not just some of the wires inside.
Dan - isn't there some requirement to provide the means for recycling the product too if applicable? Most likely something with metal and copper would require recycling.
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
Just inquiring - does this apply to your daily business in any way?
Yes, I did read into the RoHS further and I am sure that is another optical we are going to have to hurtle in order to get this aspect of business moving forward - I am less then pleased to say. "I do appreciate the heads up on this added hurtle, sincerly".
RE: CE Wiring
Lionel, my recycling "plan" is "Send it back to us and we'll dispose of it for you". Considering the type of products I produce, I doubt I'll ever receive a single item back.
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: CE Wiring
Most consultancies will offer you a free consultation. No answer or advise on here would be as valuable as those obtained from professional consultants.
Go to the pages below, explain that you have a lamp you wish to certify for export to the EU, and take it from there.
You might find the cost for them to review your manufacturing processes and the final product is not quite as expensive as you'd expect! Then again, it might be astronomical, but there is only one way to find out!
http:
http://www.centronsolutions.com/contact.php
http://www.barclay-phelps.com/page8.html
Note though, that these have been pulled out of Google at random.
RE: CE Wiring
You also might want to check out this site:
http://www.cemarking.net/
You can take Hans' free course to get up to speed on CE Marking.
John D
RE: CE Wiring
I do appreciate the feedback, but Ohio is further then Atlanta and so is Maryland. I have spoke with Han about this as well and he was able to give me a clear understanding, but it still does not help my situation in finding someone to take the lamps and certify.
Thanks again,
Jason
RE: CE Wiring
It is in fact quite simple: If you are confident that you are in compliance with the European rules and regulations, put a CE mark on it. If you are not, then hire a consultant that can tell you exactly which regulations are applicable, or try to find out yourselves at the internet: http://eur-lex.europa.eu You can also find out in which cases a notified body is required (you can recognize these on the CE including a 4 digit number).
In this business case you have to weigh your expected earnings against investing time/money for CE, with keeping in mind the financial risks for not being secure. Penalties for using the CE mark without fullfilling the requirements are high, as it is considered to be economical crime.
It is probably most convenient to contact a European certification institute like KEMA or TuV.
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
You can have someone else build the whole thing but YOU are responsible for making sure it gets built correctly.
Same thing you see with Chinese poison products. The US toy company takes the heat when lead is discovered not the Chinese company. (Though of course heads roll there too.)
Same with this. If you have another company assemble/build your product you must inspect or have the product line watched. You need to make sure they don't switch to cheap dangerous wire or lead based paint after a day, or week, or month, or year.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: CE Wiring
RE: CE Wiring
There is a reason for these questions. If a product is produced in the EU, the manufacturer has liability and has to sin the declarations of conformance. This is not the case here.
In your case, the company *importing* goods into the EU is legally regarded as the "manufacturer", and he has to sign the DoC's.
Now, not a lot of trade companies like to do this, so they come back to the producer and ask for backup declarations and test reports.
However, if you do have an importer, you might ask him to help finding a test house in Europe, as he will have to sign the documents in the end.
If you are selling directly to consumers (like over the Web), there is an "own use" clause, which means products do not necessarily need to be CE/RoHS/WEEE conform, that's customer's own responsibility.
Best Regards,
Benta.
RE: CE Wiring
I'd certainly be interested in hearing a bit more about this "own use" clause... can you point to any documentation (or sections of the RoHS code) that specify this?
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: CE Wiring
We only sell to retailers or interior designers. This will likely turn into a mass production thing where we import many lamps (hundreds) and a portion of those will need to be either "wired" or "rewired" for export to Europe.
RE: CE Wiring
http://www.conformance.co.uk/directives/puwer.php
The key phrase both for RoHS and CE is "put on the market", which is not the case for "own use".
Regards,
Benta.
RE: CE Wiring
Your first post on "own use" seemed to suggest the CE compliance was only required if the product was sold to resellers, but not straight to customers. Obviously this didn't seem correct to me, hence my question. Reading over the link you sent, those rules apply to equipment to be used "in-house" by employees, not to anything that is sold for profit.
Were you intending otherwise?
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com