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Any Luck from purchased post processor?
2

Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
We have purchased our first post from Siemens\UG for a 5 axis DMG. Over a year latter and it's usable only with some serious editing.At the same time we purchased a post for the same machine for Mastercam and it works flawlessly.Has anyone ever used a third party to write a post such as ICAM ?

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

My experiences with purchased posts are pretty grim...

The ONLY way I have had success is by doing it 100% myself.
You know the old saying... You want something done right, do it yourself!

forget ICAM... NX has Postbuilder, you should be able to knock off a 5 axis post in no time using that!

J

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
Thanks Jaydenn for the input .I've had fairly good luck using the post builder for other machines and controls but not so much luck on this Heidenhain Control.This is the first one we ever purchased from Ug .We've had a few different people at Ug work on it and so far its been just an embarressment to us all.

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

We have a postprocessor from JANUS Engineering.  It was wrote in 2000 and it has never been changed since.  Its for a Hermle CNC 5 axis.  I would suggest you get in touch with that company and get one from them.   

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

I would assume that Siemens will stand behind their post, keep after them to fix it. They do have some very knowledgeable people, usually in the field doing application support when it comes to their best post writers.

Is Hank Holt still around?
 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
Hey Ben ,Siemens has attempted to correct it but so much time passes between them getting back to us with their latest attempts. We only have about 8 UG seats so we are small potatoes to them.We been using UG since 1988 but have always been treated like the red headed step child.

Hank Holt? Don't know him. we worked about 15 years ago with a guy named Mark Spitz.He was a sharp dude when it came to postprocessors.

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Don't use ICAM. They are horrible!!!

Hank is still around. I'm going to Texas for Postbuilder class in 2 weeks!

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
"Don't use ICAM. They are horrible!!!"
Really? that is who the machine builder recomended,That's also why i was asking you guys.Thanks for the input John
 

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Sounds like ICAM already has a post on the shelf that they developed with the machine tool builder.

John, Is Hank teaching the PB class? He and I were in a customiation class for UG/Post pre-Post Builder! We were modifying the posts with TCL code directly. Fun days,, sometime around V16, if I remember.
 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Yeah Hank is teaching the class. Talked to him on the phone, he seemed like a real nice guy.

uguser3- Yeah thats why we bought an ICAM post too. I spent months and endless emails back and forth. Finally they said since we didn't purchase maintence for the post they weren't going to help us any more. Never output usable code.

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
It's pretty  Sad when we have to get a guy on the shop floor to program our 5 axis work on his laptop with mastercam  

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

I agree with the comment by rg006 re. Janus Engineering for the supply of postprocessors. We've been using one for about six years on a DMu50EV and two DMu70eV 5-axis machining centres with the Heidenhain iTNC530 control successfully.

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
Thanks rg006 & xfv8, I'm going to check out Janus.
now i assume you guys have output a cls file then post that with your Janus post?

 I received another version from seimens last night. Looks like at least this one wouldnt crash the machine tool. Still got to edit the heck out of it to keep from erroring out though

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Uguser3,

As others said (I don't mean to bash Siemens here), find someone who has done that post - in the real world for other clients. Janus Engineering as suggested is pretty well known. They are in Europe though.
 
I know Hermle uses PostBuilder created posts for their in-house programming. It's just a matter of finding an experienced writer.

--
Bill

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Why not bash siemems. They sell a product that clearly does not work. What use is a CAM system without posts?

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
"What use is a CAM system without posts?"  Exactly!!,its hard to sell virtual parts to our customers.Siemens has the resources they just need to cozie up to machine builders (atleast the major players)and get it right.I stood up for UG to write our post because i thought they would do it best job.I'm still holding out hope they'll make good...ofcourse i still believe in the easter bunny too



 

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Quote;

they just need to cozie up to machine builders

------------------------------------------------

Siemens idea of working with machine tool builders is to SELL the a copy of UG - lol

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Before this thread gets TOO off topic, let's steer it back.

You say you are trying to build a Heidenhain, 5 axis mill post?

I just built one of these from scratch, using post builder.
From start to finish I spent 2 days, and now I have a post that is safe and I am familiar with how it all works.

Are you programming in conversational? or in ISO?

Are you familiar with building a post starting from predefined controller? (look at the picture I uploaded)
Starting with the predifined controller gets you half way there, right away.

J

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
j,
Yes trying to get a reliable post built for dmg 5axis machine (knutating head) for Heidenhain IT
V530 mill plus control ISO code. Going from transformed planes(G7) to G141 mode is where they cant seem to get it right.If you are familar with the control (i am not) the G141 mode is where the raw cls data (x,y,z and toolaxis vectors) needs to output and the control uses that and the  kinemetics of the machine tool to do all the calculations.

Thanks
  

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

"Yes trying to get a reliable post built for dmg 5axis machine (knutating head) for Heidenhain IT
V530 mill plus control ISO code. Going from transformed planes(G7) to G141 mode is where they cant seem to get it right.If you are familar with the control (i am not) the G141 mode is where the raw cls data (x,y,z and toolaxis vectors) needs to output and the control uses that and the  kinemetics of the machine tool to do all the calculations."

I'm impressed that your Mastercam guy got that one right. That is definitely not your average post. Heidenhain is one thing, adding vector control complicates things. I did one for a Hermle with a 530 control but much simpler ISO mode. Pm me at: btriffet at earthlink dot net, for a top Siemens contact on cam posts. He's worked with me in the past. I think he could get-er-done.

--
Bill
 

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
I'm impressed that your Mastercam guy got that one right

Yeah Bill us UG programmers laughed when they purchased it but now we check the UG output against the mastercam to try and get it right.We all are eating crow including the UG tech that was here two days working on the post.

Yes it is special output but not that uncommon anymore.
I can use the post builder for the generic stuff but writing the extra tcl commands is out of my leauge.
I'll PM you for your contact. Thank you

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Just out of interest what output do you need?

Is it something like this?

0 BEGIN PGM  CAD MM
1 BLK FORM 0.1 Z X-30. Y-17. Z-37.657
2 BLK FORM 0.2  X+30. Y+17. Z+0.
3 FN 0:  Q12 =+40000  ; RAPID FEEDRATE
; TOOL NUMBER 5 L0. R+5. :   16. FLAT ENDMILL
4 M300
5 TOOL CALL 5 Z S8000 ;  16. FLAT ENDMILL
6 CYCL DEF 32.0 TOLERANCE
7 CYCL DEF 32.1 T+5.
* - SWARF NEW TOOLPATH
8 LN X+11.256 Y-18.073 Z+150. NX0. NY0. NZ0. TX-.2793100 TY+.1717975 TZ +.9447071 FMAX M3
9 CYCL DEF 303
  Q394=1.   ;Sampling[s]
  Q395=6000.   ;max G value [0...10]
  Q388=0.   ;max G value for PgmSto
  Q389=0.02   ;G message
;  C+328.405 B-19.142
10 LN X+11.256 Y-18.073 Z+150. NX0. NY0. NZ0. TX-.2793100 TY+.1717975 TZ +.9447071 FMAX ;  C+328.405 B-19.142
11 M128
12 M126
13 LN X+11.256 Y-18.073 Z+150. NX0. NY0. NZ0. TX-.2793100 TY+.1717975 TZ +.9447071 FMAX ;  C+328.405 B-19.142
14 LN X+11.256 Y-18.073 Z+150. NX0. NY0. NZ0. TX-.2793100 TY+.1717975 TZ +.9447071 FMAX ;  C+328.405 B-19.142
15 LN X+11.256 Y-18.073 Z+4.926 NX0. NY0. NZ0. TX-.2793100 TY+.1717975 TZ +.9447071 FMAX ;  C+328.405 B-19.142
16 LN X+14.049 Y-19.791 Z-4.521 NX0. NY0. NZ0. TX-.2793100 TY+.1717975 TZ +.9447071 FMAX ;  C+328.405 B-19.142
17 LN X+16.842 Y-21.509 Z-13.968 NX0. NY0. NZ0. TX-.2793100 TY+.1717975 TZ +.9447071 F1000 ;  C+328.405 B-19.142
18 LN X+16.782 Y-21.022 Z-14.074 NX0. NY0. NZ0. TX-.2793100 TY+.1717975 TZ +.9447071 F1000 ;  C+328.405 B-19.142
 

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
Bugie,
No nothing like that, ours is ISO code



N1 T5
N2 G7 L1=1 A5=0.0 C5=0.0
N3 M57
N4 S12000 M3
N5 M8
N6 G0
N7 X3. Y1.5146
N8 Z.1
N9 G1 Z-.49 F10.
N10 X2.9854
N11 Y1.4854
N12 X3.0146
N13 Y1.5146
N14 X3.
N15 Y1.5771
N16 X2.9229
N17 Y1.4229
N18 X3.0771
N19 Y1.5771
N20 X3.
N21 Y1.6396
N22 X2.8604
N23 Y1.3604
N24 X3.1396
N25 Y1.6396
N26 X3.
N27 Y1.7021
N28 X2.7979
N29 Y1.2979
N30 X3.2021
N31 Y1.7021
N32 X3.
N33 G0 Z.1
N34 G174
N35 G7
N36 G141 L2=0 F2=15000.
N37 G0 B14.16 C174.981               
N38 X2.6833 Y1.625                  
N39 Z.4                              
N40 X2.7354 Z.1046                  
N41 G1 X2.8415 Z-.4969 F10.        
N42 X2.8414 Y1.5 Z-.4962
N43 X2.8413 Y1.4602 Z-.496 B14.58 C188.742
N44 X2.8412 Y1.4204 Z-.4953 B15.774 C200.8
N45 X2.841 Y1.3806 Z-.4942 B17.586 C210.508
N46 X2.8407 Y1.3407 Z-.4926 B19.852 C217.946
N47 X2.8939 Y1.3411 Z-.4946 B16.924 C230.451
N48 X2.947 Y1.3413 Z-.4958 B14.899 C246.434
N49 X3. Y1.3414 Z-.4962 B14.16 C264.981
N50 X3.053 Y1.3413 Z-.4958 B14.899 C283.001
N51 X3.1061 Y1.3411 Z-.4946 B16.924 C297.539
N52 X3.1593 Y1.3407 Z-.4926 B19.852 C307.946
N53 X3.1589 Y1.

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

UGUSER3,

Is your posted example of code what you want?
Cause it looks like simple, boring, run-of-the-mill GCODE. Nothing special at all.

It's certainly NOT G141 type code.
G141 is 3D cuttercomp. It need contact point data, surface normal vector components and tool contact normal vector components(in certain situations).

Bugies code is what you want if you are using G141 for both iso or heidenhain conversational( i'm not talking about the setup stuff, i'm only refering to the xyz NxNyNz TxTyTz lines)

if your posted example is what you want... You only need a very basic post.

J

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
Hi Jaydenn,
Very basic post... sorta. Ug has worked on last week several days, They tell me they are close so i'm hoping this nightmare will end.

G141= 3d cutcomp=yes.this is G141 on our control x,y,z tool contact points B&C are tool axis vectors or I J & K's can be used instead of B&C's   

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

The 3d cutcom in millplus is a bit different from what other controllers require. The bugs in the contact data do make it quite a challenge to create a working postprocessor. Good luck, the siemens guys will get it right in time.

www.rouwe-analysis.info

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Best way to save your money is to get from anywhere documentation (if haven't yet) about NX and write the post by yourself, using help info. Tried by myself - it is real. Youy can set up 3D tool correction, but as for me, FANUC logics of correction is really poor. Its much faster to repost the program than do this correction. imho
With best regards
Yuri

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
Yuri,
Thanks for the reply,I have been able to write all our Nx posts for all our other controls,but this one is a bit different.The G141 3d tool is alot more than just a 3d cutcomp.The cool thing about this machine is unlike the old controls where you had to know where your part is from center lines of your 4th and fith axis.You can set your mcs any where on your part post it ,then put and where on the table(4th axis )and run your program.thecontrol with the  kinemetics of the machine does all the calculations instead of the post  

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

"The cool thing about this machine is unlike the old controls where you had to know where your part is from center lines of your 4th and fith axis.You can set your mcs any where on your part post it ,then put and where on the table(4th axis )and run your program.thecontrol with the  kinemetics of the machine does all the calculations instead of the post"

At my last place we had a couple Hermles setup like that. The down side is they were the only 2 Heidenain machines in the shop and the only ones with that feature (probing program zero and tracking axis properly). When we had some mismatch on a couple impellers we were machining, none of us could figure out where the error was coming from.

Programming from a known position allowed us to deconstruct the error to find the problem. We ended up going back to the standard "Home is located here" to keep things simple.

--
Bill   

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

"The cool thing about this machine is unlike the old controls where you had to know where your part is from center lines of your 4th and fith axis.You can set your mcs any where on your part post it ,then put and where on the table(4th axis )and run your program.thecontrol with the  kinemetics of the machine does all the calculations instead of the post"

Most new 5 axis mills work like this. It is called Tool centre point control

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

"Most new 5 axis mills work like this. It is called Tool centre point control"

True. Just about all the new machines. That said, a LOT of the airframe shops (here is the US) are still using old iron and controls. The main issue is most all large airframe shops use a "failsafe" pin for their large multi-spindle gantries. Having the tool drive around the pin before cutting the part insures the proper tool is loaded. For that reason, the part must be oriented in a known position from that pin.

--
Bill

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

My company have recently become a VAR (value added re-seller) for Siemens in the UK, and we specialise in CAM rather than CAD. I am the post-processor writer and we can supply NX posts incorporating any of the functions that you mention. Contact me if you want any details. Julian.

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

Good day I was just reading this post & found it interesting. I have just been transfered to a new facility within the company I work for & they have 2 Nocolas Correa 5-axis (A-axis rotary on X-axis, B & C axis nutating head ?) machines with the Heidenhain TNC-530 controls. I'm use to Fanuc type controls & Okuma, so the HeidenHain control is very new to me, learning curve time. I also have to learn NX6/NX5. The sample code Bugie posted looks very similar to the program files I was veiwing at work. Is this a readily available post for NX or is it one you built with the NX postbuilder ?. Also any links to training type materials for the Heidenhain control & NX would be appreciated. Sorry kind of long winded.

RE: Any Luck from purchased post processor?

(OP)
Hello Billytucker,The guys at UG told me they had a post for Heidenhain conversational control ours is the iso version and they had not written one before.I received their last efforts back in November.We now have a uasable post with just a few minor tweaks needed.  

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