The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
(OP)
I've always been in love with the combustion engine, as probably most of the men and women in this forum (maybe even on the planet). I'm a BSME with an interest in returning for an MS, but unsure of the focus.
A few years back I called an old professor asking if he had any upcoming open opportunities in his field of research (the study of combustion and mechanics and how they related to the combustion engine in particular). He told me that indeed his research assistant was finishing his degree the end of that particular semester, but his funding was cut such that he wasn't going to be able to continue the following year with another assistanceship. I don't know what happened after that.
Where do you all feel the industry is going in regards to the combustion engine as a consumer power source? Is there any REAL value in hybrid or electric technology vs. combustion engine design mindful of efficiency (both fuel and power delivery in combination). Technology like catalysts, fuel injection, computer-controlled throttle, valve/cam and ignition timing, etc. all seem to have made leaps and bounds in efficient power generation over the past 20 years. Lately the improvements have been particularly amazing...a mid-sized SUV that can get 30+ mpg highway?! Some of power of modern V-6 engines?! The reliability of turbo and supercharged engines?! Wow!
I would love to be in this arena, but is there a future?
A few years back I called an old professor asking if he had any upcoming open opportunities in his field of research (the study of combustion and mechanics and how they related to the combustion engine in particular). He told me that indeed his research assistant was finishing his degree the end of that particular semester, but his funding was cut such that he wasn't going to be able to continue the following year with another assistanceship. I don't know what happened after that.
Where do you all feel the industry is going in regards to the combustion engine as a consumer power source? Is there any REAL value in hybrid or electric technology vs. combustion engine design mindful of efficiency (both fuel and power delivery in combination). Technology like catalysts, fuel injection, computer-controlled throttle, valve/cam and ignition timing, etc. all seem to have made leaps and bounds in efficient power generation over the past 20 years. Lately the improvements have been particularly amazing...a mid-sized SUV that can get 30+ mpg highway?! Some of power of modern V-6 engines?! The reliability of turbo and supercharged engines?! Wow!
I would love to be in this arena, but is there a future?
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Fitter, happier, more productive





RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
So far, it is unmatched in its convenience, cost, simplicity , weight and power density.
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
We've tweaked the ICE to have very good efficiency at the final source, and anything else will have to compete with our extensive knowledge and reliability that we've built up over 100+ years of using them. It may well be that electrical takes over in some areas, e.g. in crowded areas to reduce smog etc., but even that won't be for 25-50 years. I think the ICE has at least 75-100 years left, and probably will last much longer than that.
There is REAL value in hybrids and electrics, but they all have their sweet spots in terms of ideal operations and duty cycles, and their own drawbacks. Electrics are severely limited by the total on-board energy storage, hybrids are limited by the length of time they can output peak power, since they run into their non-combustion energy storage limit during sustained high power output situations.
There is far more than a career-length of interesting stuff left in any of the areas you mentioned, so you should just follow what you like to do.
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
The combustion engine will be the prime mover of choice for automotive applications for several decades to come. Hydrofluoric summed up the reasons nicely. Market forces will mostly determine what powers our cars, but government regulations will also continue to have a greater impact going forward.
By all means, continue with your education as long as your circumstances permit. Try to become familiar with as many aspects of engine design as possible, such as controls, simulation, mechanical design, fluid dynamics, heat transfer, tribology, kinematics, combustion kinetics, metallurgy, etc.
Also, try to spend some time interning with companies that manufacture engines. Your classroom and lab work will give you knowledge about the technical issues of engine design, but working around an engine production line will help you understand how to design an engine that is also cost effective and profitable to manufacture.
As an engineer with a strong technical background, as well as a good understanding of what it takes to manufacture a quality production engine, you will never have a problem finding excellent paying work.
Best of luck to you.
Terry
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
- Steve
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
And besides there are better more effcient power sources.
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
Turbines are too inefficient.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
Trucks and Ag machines owners won't be able to afford the taxes if they retain the same sort of prime movers. I forsee burning of any sort of fuel will be pretty much banned, for personal, commercial or other wise well unless its for education or antique demonstrations.
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
I love that fuel pressure. A leak won't take long to find...
Rod
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
the fuel pressure was never a problem, as is indicated by the popularity of diesel engines. detonation supression technologies and the lack thereof are what kept the direct-injected gasoline engines from consumers for awhile, if i understand correctly, that is.
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Fitter, happier, more productive
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
www.auto-scape.com
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
Rod
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
All passcar OEM's are looking to migrate to EV's in the long term, but the cost of high energy density battery storage will remain high for the foreseeable future and range anxiety from the consumer is likely to limit take up of these (by definition) expensive vehicles.
In the interim, mild to dominant hybrids and range extended vehicles are likely to become a lot more prevalent. Of interest to BigTank may be that designing and operating conventional IC engines for these applications but with minimum cost/best BSFC is still not well understood.
The likely migration of conventional IC engines to limited speed/load generators (APU's) operating in unconventional engine cycles and under some very strange duty cycles, but still at minimum cost is going to keep engine engineers in employment for many years to come.....
Anyone fancy discussing novel architectures for dominant hybrids/APU's?
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
cite?
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
Renault Powertrain Strategy (Goldman Sachs) 2009.
TNO report for the EU showing requirement to move to hybrids to meet EU CO2 legislation (Oct 2006).
UK King reports for the All Party Parliamentary Motor Group.
These are public domain. There are many others out there.
Long term EV migration (inc dominance of PHEV) may not actually happen, but that's where the investment is currently focused . The trade mags (SAE AEI, ATZ, MTZ etc) show how much money is being thrown at EV powertrain systems.
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
BMW - hydrogen IC
Honda - hydrogen fuel cell
I would guess that most companies don't know what will happen, and have fingers in many pies. I think there is a case for EVs, but in 20 years there is time for any sort of strange development to occur. In 20 years time the fleet will still be 50% gasoline according to a study I vaguely misremember.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
Twenty years is not all that long.
No bullet trains, no hover cars. No mass move to EV's except in major metro areas, absent any BIG breakthrough in technology...I mean a breakthrough NOW!
Twenty years is not all that long.
Rod
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
OEMs feel obliged to develop EVs, because their customers seem to think they want them.
- Steve
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
http://www.ammoniafuelnetwork.org/
Also, (besides being necessary in trucks, tractors and commercial ships), reciprocating engines have become increasingly popular in the power market:
http://www.dieselgasturbine.com/pdf/power_2008.pdf
As opposed to large power plants they are not only more flexible, they can also sell their heat and can reach a combined efficiency of over 90%:
http:
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
However I can't see them ever being really practical because of the recharge time - I think people want to be able to refuel/recharge once a week in 5 or 10 minutes - not 6 to 8 hours every day. It is also hard to imagine a power supply grid capable of recharging every vehicle once a week in 5 or 10 minutes.
I think the IC engine (in some form) is here to stay for a long time yet.
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
What I meant when I posted the part about needing tech advance tomorrow (if not sooner?), is the need for some affordable power source, batt, fuel cell, whatever, that can power up the EV in a moderate time and provide a range of several hundred miles. Out here in the west, that can mean at least 400+ miles. As it stands, that is just not possible and, even if it were, even if the technology to build a power source capable of such mileage were available today, it would be decades before it could become "mainstream".
The IC engine, in some form, will be with us for much longer than just 20 years (for me, 20 years ago was like last week!!!), probably at least the next 100.
Rod
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
. . .
Twenty years is not all that long."
Well that gets me thinking- 1990 we already had EFI and ECUs pretty much standard. Maybe electronic transmission control starting to surface? Anyway, lots of refinement since then but maybe as Rod argues not much 'paradigm shifting' going on. But jump back to '70 in the pre oil crisis/tetraethyl lead days and autos start looking considerably more 'primitive' in terms of both design and overall performance. Maybe it depends which 20 years one is talking about?
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
Gasoline ~12,000Wh/Kg.
It's going to take a lot of batteries to get a 400mile range....
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
of course it is and that's why plug-in hybrids have an range-extending IC-engine and that's why EVs will mostly be used on short commutes.
What I was trying to say: If these vehicles won't sell, it's not because people are too lazy to plug them in overnight...
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
Gasoline ~9,100Wh/L
LiIon ~320-250Wh/L
And the extra weight/volume of batteries pushes up the vehicle size, which reduces the range etc etc.
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
Even if this power cell technology comes through,
even if it is totally as depicted,
even if the car companies and, of course, Exxon/etc., can come to agreement,
even then it will take decades to perfect and longer to replace the ICE!
Gave up on all the crap on NBC and watched the new Star Trek again...love the part with the Vette...
Rod
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED
Kind of like those who think Mass Transit is the answer......... Will work splendidly for part of the country, but what about the rest of us?
RE: The future of the combustion engine-OP ED