Company Title Block Signatures
Company Title Block Signatures
(OP)
Hello All,
We're having a huge problem with one of our customers. Our sustaining lead asked my advice on the following.
"They're are trying to tell us how we control our title block signatures, who (dept's) signs the block, and date formating?"
I told him that our customer cannot do that and it is company drivin standard. He then asked if there's a MIL, ASME, ANSI yada yada yada, that direct us too. I said no as long as the orginal signed and dated drawing matches (one to one) the electronic typed name and date we're all alright. That I believe is in the ASME standard.
We have complete history of all of our revised drawings, and always have tracibility back to the orginal signatures and dates.
Thanks,
We're having a huge problem with one of our customers. Our sustaining lead asked my advice on the following.
"They're are trying to tell us how we control our title block signatures, who (dept's) signs the block, and date formating?"
I told him that our customer cannot do that and it is company drivin standard. He then asked if there's a MIL, ASME, ANSI yada yada yada, that direct us too. I said no as long as the orginal signed and dated drawing matches (one to one) the electronic typed name and date we're all alright. That I believe is in the ASME standard.
We have complete history of all of our revised drawings, and always have tracibility back to the orginal signatures and dates.
Thanks,
Colin Fitzpatrick (aka Macduff)
Mechanical Designer
Solidworks 2009 SP 3.0
Dell 490 XP Pro SP 2
Xeon CPU 3.00 GHz 3.00 GB of RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB
3D Connexion-SpaceExplorer





RE: Company Title Block Signatures
Most customers do not want to get into process means and methods. When this happens, it means that they can be held contractually responsible for the results of those means and methods, taking you off the hook.
The customer may have quality requirements, but normally firms may require that you have a quality control plan with quality control procedures that support that plan. That should be specified in the original contract, and if the contract gives them approval rights, you could generate a project-specific quality assurance plan.
For configuration management purposes, the requirement is generally that drawings are approved internally by authorized persons. Your quality control plan/procedures control who those authorized people are. If the customer has quality requirements (for example, that you follow ISO quality standards, etc.) that is something that's handled with your registrar when you establish your quality program.
You cannot allow customers to mess with your internal company processes -- if you set that precedent, you'll lose control of your processes bit by bit.
When you have disagreements like this, return to the customers contract with you and see if you've given them the right to mess with your internal system. If you have, don't repeat the error on future jobs.
When I'm on the receiving side (which I often am), I avoid such things like the plaque, because you give your supplier a giant sized excape contract in the event something goes wrong. Explain this to the customer.
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
Many companies have more signatures than those two, but the only driving requirement is that the company follow their Quality Procedures. If the customer contractually specified which signatures are required, then you should follow. If it is not contractually specified, you have to follow your own Quality Procedures.
"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
As an aside, this would probably be more appropriate in forum781: -Engineering Configuration Management
"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
This sounds like part of an ISO9000 sort of discussion. What sort of contractual relationship do you have with this customer?
You need to consider the possibility that the customer is always right.
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
Chris
SolidWorks 09, CATIA V5
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
If the contract supports the customer you do what the customer tells you.
If the contract is ambiguous, you tell the customer "The costs associated with revising our internal processes are outside the scope of the contract and were not included in our bid. We would be happy to execute a change order to accommodate your request."
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
You guys rock!
Colin Fitzpatrick (aka Macduff)
Mechanical Designer
Solidworks 2009 SP 3.0
Dell 490 XP Pro SP 2
Xeon CPU 3.00 GHz 3.00 GB of RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB
3D Connexion-SpaceExplorer
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
If it's in the contract then do it.
If it's not then say no sorry.
If' it's ambiguous say the cost difference etc.
When bidding jobs in future check these sorts of things in advance and bid accordingly, turn down bids if the hassle is too much.
As Chris says, for govt jobs or similar where the customer effectively owns the drawings at the end of the job, then pretty much they do get to spec all these things.
My previous employer had jobs from various govt agencies, some direct some via tier 1 defense contractors etc. While the basic principles were the same, some contracts did have slightly different requirements on these types of things, so we followed them.
Check out 14.100 & 14.35 just in case they have anything relevant.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
When we have our first release of a drawing, we print/plot it out and have all the applicable depts. sign and date it. Then if there's a revision (ECO) against the drawing we type in the signatures at that point, and remain on the drawing there after. We've been doing this for years and the FAA approves of this because we keep a revision history of our entire doc's. It's now our customer that is challenging us on our process.
Colin Fitzpatrick (aka Macduff)
Mechanical Designer
Solidworks 2009 SP 3.0
Dell 490 XP Pro SP 2
Xeon CPU 3.00 GHz 3.00 GB of RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB
3D Connexion-SpaceExplorer
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
We type in signature in the revision block because it's signed on the ECO. Total tracibility of signatures back to what's typed in.
Thanks,
Colin Fitzpatrick (aka Macduff)
Mechanical Designer
Solidworks 2009 SP 3.0
Dell 490 XP Pro SP 2
Xeon CPU 3.00 GHz 3.00 GB of RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB
3D Connexion-SpaceExplorer
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
Macduff, the fact that there is a typing in of the names for later revisions kind've makes the point made earlier. It is of no value, since the document in its current form was not approved by that individual. This is something that's been lacking in the Engineering field even before the Information Age open up the possibilities of a paperless society. It would be easy enough for an Engineer approver to say "I approved rev A, but did not approve any of the subsequent changes." Each revision needs to be fully approved. There are no half-approvals, especially in these days with all the lawsuits on one side, and all the ISO compliance requirements on the other.
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
I might be repeating items, but would like to clarify our process here.
The original drawing is physically sign and released at rev n/c or -. Then signoffs are typed into the title block in our PDM. We have now traceability of the physical signoffs back to the typed in signoffs on the electronic document. When a revision is issued, the ECO is physically signed by all applicable depts, and the draftsperson incorporates the change on the drawing and electronically types his or her name in the revision history block, and released through DC.
Colin Fitzpatrick (aka Macduff)
Mechanical Designer
Solidworks 2009 SP 3.0
Dell 490 XP Pro SP 2
Xeon CPU 3.00 GHz 3.00 GB of RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB
3D Connexion-SpaceExplorer
RE: Company Title Block Signatures
Typing approver's names into approval fields is unnecessary if you are referencing the ECO in the rev block. We don't even have approval fields in our title blocks. Don't need them.
HOWEVER, if you really really want them one there, you can use "s/ name here /s" method that points to the fact that a physical signature exists somewhere. I would still question leaving the original signature from the n/c revision on any subsequent revisions, but I know this is a traditional drafting thing to do.
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group