Smart questions
Smart answers
Smart people
Join Eng-Tips Forums
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Member Login




Remember Me
Forgot Password?
Join Us!

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips now!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

Join Eng-Tips
*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.
Jobs from Indeed

Link To This Forum!

Partner Button
Add Stickiness To Your Site By Linking To This Professionally Managed Technical Forum.
Just copy and paste the
code below into your site.

Vaards (Civil/Environmental) (OP)
24 Sep 09 9:29
Dear Americans!
 
I am manager from road materials testing labroatory in Latvia. We are acredited according to some 30 EU testing methods. Proctor compation, Sand equvalent - all this is qute good level in our laboratory.
 
 
So, but now we have works on airport field and the only reasonable way how to get work finished with canalisation, drainage, electricity seems to buy Nuclear Gauge for density measurements - it is accepted buy Superwisor, Main site Engineer or whatever he is called. But somehow Nuclear Gauges are not used in our country at all.
 
So, My question is as stupid as it is:
 
1. Which one is preferable - Troxler or Humboldt (I found in our country representatives for these two). - I don`t know how to use gauges, so I don`t know what is important and what to ask here :)
 
2. If we are buying troxler 3450 (studied a little bit) It seems quite good for our asphalt compaction measurements too.
 
3. what price you are paying in USA for 3450 model? I got proposal for 8895 LVL + 21%VAT. In dollars it means 22 900 (Tax included). I guess they made quite enormous profit margin up on it. So - what price you are paying for this gauge, just gauge - no calibration included, no teching. Nothing?
 
4. And from p.3. I have an idea - may be it is reasonable to find some way for direct import from States to Latvia?
bb29510 (Geotechnical)
28 Sep 09 10:32
We use Campbell Pacfic Nuke, or CPN. You can buy then used too
BigH (Geotechnical)
28 Sep 09 12:36
You might be paying a high price because of government import duties - so even if you bought in the States, you would still get hit for the import tax.  Need to check this out too.
Vaards (Civil/Environmental) (OP)
28 Sep 09 13:31
brownbagg,
Can`t find on google any kind of specification for your gauge. Is your spelling correct?

BigH,
Price is not the biggest concern what worries me. Usability, service and all other questions how it is used for daily works on site. For example - is it used by site emploees like falling weight express methods  (Loadman) or Beldornii. Or there is more complicate aproach - laboratory stuff takes samples for proctor testing, then have that optimal compatcion/humidity curve, writes into Nuclear Gauge 100% proctor value and then measures point after point works what was done. Then he comes back to laboratory, loads into PC measurements, makes test protocol for accreditation reference, then dept manager prints out test report for customer (usually for project manager - other department people)?
 
If it is possible to do second scenario - how is done calibration, inter-laboratoric testing, paralel testing and all this formal tasks. Because N.Gauge can be used for lot of surfaces - soils, asphalts, concrete etc.
BigH (Geotechnical)
29 Sep 09 1:10
Sorry vaards but your original post basically discussed price. of course the other items are of concern in operation.  However, we use nuclear guages here in Indonesia, they were used in China, India - so I am not sure why they wouldn't work in your area - of course, you must have training courses and ensure your staff knows how to use them, how not to abuse them and how to determine if the results make sense.  Like with any "black box" instrument.
Riggly (Geotechnical)
30 Sep 09 0:00
I use Troxler in the US. But I would imagine that they are all quite similar, and works on the same principle.  The bigger issue with the guage is just not purchasing, but maintenance.  That include performing 'leak tests' to ensure that there is no radioactive leak.  Here in the US, each user must carry a dosemeter to monitor exposure to radiation, and these have to be sent in the lab to check on a regular basis.  We also have strict regulations on transportation and storage of the equipment.  Then there is the issue of proper disposal of the radioactive material- but that is normally after a long time.  Since this is new in your country, some of these crucial maintenance and operational guidelines might be a challenge. One the other hand, it is a convenient tool to obtain quick density measurements.
bb29510 (Geotechnical)
2 Oct 09 10:46
ncarolinageo (Geotechnical)
6 Oct 09 15:24
The last time I priced a Troxler 3450 - it was around $8,000 US brand new with the first calibration and leak test having been done before it was shipped.  That did not include any shipping charges, but I am only 20 miles from their facility in Research Tiangle Park, NC.  

I know the shiopping charges are quite high as they need to be insured and they also are basically treated as hazardous by most if not all carriers.  

As for Humboldt gauges, I used to have 2 older 5000B models, and I did not like them at all.  They were always in need of calibration and I found that they were not very accurate when it came to moisture readings in soils (We commonly found differences on the order to 7 to 10% between the gauge and an "oven" moisture with the Humboldts compared to 1-3% with the Troxler).  
SirAl (Geotechnical)
15 Nov 09 1:18
A nuclear densometer is the industry standard for field compaction QC/QA testing in most situations.  It is a valuable instrument. We use both Troxler and Campbell Pacific densometers here in my part of the world (Northwestern Canada). We do not own Humbolt units so I can't comment on those. I have a personal preference for the Troxler. They are more expensive but in my experience they perform well and require less maintenance. As this equipment contains nuclear sources, shipping of such items requires special shipping instructions, documents, etc. Thus reliablility and quality of the product are important factors, especially where you are overseas and shipping frequently for repair/maintenance is time consuming and expensive. I have no idea of the various 'tack-on' costs you have to incur but the total number you provided seams rediculous to me (more than 2x the cost of the unit I would pay)     
bb29510 (Geotechnical)
19 Nov 09 9:27
we buy our campells used/ factory rebuilt. The one i have is an 81 model that been upgraded couple times. It just as good as a new unit but quarter the price. You cannot tell the different from a new unit except the date on the side of it. we had a couple troxlers but mainly deal with campbells due to one supplier. We like sending everything to one supplier
Pigpen (Geotechnical)
11 Dec 09 8:43
We have both Troxler and Humboldt gauges (as well as some older CPNs) and you probably want to buy the Troxler. It will be more expensive, but they are more reliable. The upside to a Humboldt is that it is assembled to allow for the user to replace parts without sending away. The Humboldt (we have a 5001EZ) is a great gauge when it works, but I can also affirm that it is very sporadic and is highly sensitive to moisture infiltration into the shell. You have to be very careful testing asphalt with a Humboldt because the steam will penetrate the shell and throw all the readings off.  
40A (Civil/Environmental)
6 Jan 10 15:34
If there is such a high mark-up on the Nuclear types, there are new field-density units that work with electrical current.  They are pricey compared to new Troxlers, Humboldts and CPNs - here in the US, but may be practical for your location.    

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!

Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close